kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

I have had several people ask me about my engine setup and performance so I figured that I would start a thread where users could post specific information about their engine setups and their performance results. Having all of this information all in one place will be helpful for those trying to build their engines, enhance performance or diagnose issues. Please be as specific as possible when describing your setup (ie: vehicle model/year, engine model, mileage, bore modifications, camshaft specs, valve specs, exhaust specs, emissions, carburetion, jetting, fuel type, oil viscosity, intake modifications, part brands, etc...). Don't forget to add the pro and cons of your setup and the performance results. The idea is to put the information out there for people to easily follow. Hopefully this help people out with their engine builds and diagnosis.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

I'll get this party started....

I have a fully restored 1983 4WD Pickup 5spd with a 22R that I rebuilt and first fired in March of 2015.

Specs:

• Block bored 0.020" over and decked 0.006"
• Engnbldr rebuild kit:
  • +0.20 domed pistons and rings
  • Standard bearings (All)
  • Dual row timing chain (steel guides)
  • New oil pump
  • New water pump
  • New timing cover
  • New gaskets
  • New freeze plugs
• Factory connecting rods
• Factory crankshaft
• Rebuild head
  • Standard factory valves and springs
  • New stock camshaft (Engnbldr)
• Completely desmogged using LCE's emissions delete kit
• Stock intake manifold
• Weber 32/36 with manual choke (stock jetting)
• LCE spiral Weber adapter
• Factory mechanical fuel pump
• Holley fuel pressure regulator
• Front breather filter
• PCV valve routed to the intake manifold
• Stock ignition and coil
• Stock distributor (Stock curve with dual vacuum - radiator side port to the carb & head side port to the manifold)
• NGK spark plugs
• NGK wires
• 40 amp alternator
• Optima Yellow Top battery
• Aluminum radiator
• Power steering
• Power power brakes
• Exhaust:
  • TG Rock Ripper stainless headers
  • 2.25" braided stainless flex pipe (reduces stress on the exhaust manifold studs from exhaust movement)
  • 2.25 piping
  • Thrush Welded Muffler
  • Exhaust dumped straight back about 30" from the muffler to a down turn tip tucked behind the roll pan

...I think that about covers the specs


Tuning:

• 89 octane non-ethanol fuel
• Valvoline 10W-30 conventional motor oil with zinc additives added
• Timing set to 10* advance with vacuum advance pinched at 900 RPM
• Fuel pressure is set just shy of 3 psi
• Weber 32/36 adjusted per the best lean idle method provided by Weber with the idle backed down to about 750 RPM

Results:

• I have driven the truck about 2,000 miles since first firing the engine. So far there have been no mechanical issues with the rebuild or the components.
• Power is good from 0 to 4,000 RPM - very noticeable increase over stock.
• Fires up on the first bump every time WITHOUT the choke (I have not started it in cold weather yet)
• Turns 31x10.5 tires on aluminum 15" wheels very well (gears are stock 4.10's)
• Can maintain 75mph on the highway in 5th gear, but can struggle to maintain those speeds going up hill
• Fuel economy is good - I'm constantly getting 19-23 MPG depending on how much my foot is in it

Cons:

• Fuel delivery has become an issue with the Weber 32/36. There is a slight stumble when entering the secondary barrel on the carb, but before and beyond that stumble the engine runs "adequate"
• Changing the jets provided no solution to the stumble so I have been able to determine that the carb is providing a lean condition in the upper end of the RPM range where the accelerator pump simply can't keep up with the demand. I have ordered a Weber 38 to correct this issue. There is definitely more power to be had than what the 32/36 can provide so hopefully the 38 can provide that - I'll post the results
• I will also be upgrading to an electric fuel pump to provide a more constant fuel flow and more volume.

gillesdetrail

iTrader: (1)

1981 toyota pickup 4wd short bed.

Block:
-100% stock original 1983 block with 115 000 miles (185k km) never rebuilt
-Takes 1 quart of oil every 500 miles

Head:
-Unknown year 20R (with p/s bosses but no mec. fuel pump hole)
-Engnbldr Oversized 20r stainless valves 0.33 int. 0.24 exh.
-3 angle valve job
-Weber 38 dgs Carb electric choke
-Port matched 20r transdapt intake/weber adapter roughed up with a 60 grit finish
-Smoothed out the turns and sharp edges in the intake manifold entry and roughed about about 50% of the runner length to 60 grit finish
-Ported head, I very slightly opened up the runner entries and port roof, smoothed the short side radius and blended the bowls, removed casting flaws and blended the core shift (was horrible). 60 grit finish by hand so it's quite rough.
-Milled 0.015''
-LCE adjustable cam gear set at 2* advanced

Bolt-ons:
-Doug thorley 4-2-1 header
-2.5'' exhaust with 2x 14'' resonators exits before the rear axle
-Holley fuel pump and fpr

Misc:
-15w40 mobil 1 delvac diesel oil
-91 oct pump gas
-Distributor timing at 14* (I think the advanced cam setting plays a role in such high timing)
-Completely de-smoged
-stock carb jet settings
Main Jet 145
Secondary Jet 145
Primary Idle 45
Secondary Idle 45
Air Correction (Primary) 185
Air Correction (Secondary) 185
Pump Jet 70

I feel the primary idle jet could be lowered to 40 since it runs rich when you floor it at lower rpm (around 2500 rpms) in 3rd or 4th the rest is spot on, 1 turn out on the mixture screw farthest from the engine, 7/8th turn on the mixture screw closer to the engine.

**update, it was my float settings which was wrong, when I set it to 18mm&28mm I had to turn the mixture screws 1.5 turns out to achieve smoothest idle, it did not like bumpy terrains, sharp turns to the left or steep hills. Unfortunately I did not have enough time to play with it, the motor started knocking and will be rebuilt this winter.

The engine is very responsive, and pulls strong. I've never compared to a stock 22r, and didn't drive mine stock for very long before parking it for 1.5 years for the rebuild. However I think that with the port work, o/s valves, 2.5'' header collector and exhaust that it is dying for a cam and would pull much harder at low and high rpms. With the stock cam I feel there is not enough air velocity below 1800 rpms and the cam runs out of breath at around 5000-5200rpms.

I have a crane 704-0014 (trd stage 3) cam waiting to go in with forged lightweight high comp pistons. I will install them when I will do a full rebuild with balanced crank, rods, more port work, custom single side draft manifold, possibly custom header, etc.. in about 2-3 years when I have my own garage to work in.

















EDIT: I forgot to add, I get about 23 mpgs highway going 55 mph. Truck weighs 2640 lbs.

user 82300

After doing a lot of back and fourth action and getting some back pay I finally did it....

Early model 22R with dual row timing chain less then 600 miles total rebuild only 100 on second oil change. Shop did great mechanical work but super lazy and cheap with gaskets.... Had to replace engine oil pan gasket, still need to do front crank and timing seal/gaskets but barley drips

Stock engine specs

Stock dizzy
Ngk plugs/wire

Oem Toyota oil filters with 10w-40 castrol conventional oil

Exhaust:
Lce street header
Magnaflow high flow cat and muffler

Fuel system:
Lce weber 32/36 manual choke performance kit with fuel press and regulator set to like 2.7-2.9 psi.

Stock trans, axels,gears

31in Goodyear mtrs with Kevlar

Just did the weber yesterday so no mileage. But I was getting 8-13 with emissions equipment no lies... :/

Have little trouble hitting 70 on flat ground but 0-55ish is amazing now!!

Timing is set to 23 advance wth the dizzy one tooth forward and it misses if much lower but I'm gonna do complete desmog over next few months as budget allows.

83Toyota88

iTrader: (1)

Running a late model 22R. 125,000 miles on its second rebuild (no idea when it was done though).
- Weber 32/36 and went down one size on both idle jets from the factory. Float also had to be adjusted from factory to the factory specs, go figure.
- Using a Holley fuel pressure regulator with LCE fuel pressure gauge.
- Complete desmog with kit from LCR.
-Weber is sitting on top of a Trans-Dapt one piece adapter.
-Getting around 19-20 mpg on back road highways.
- Bosch distributor and wires with NGK plugs.
- LCE vacuum advance.
- Timing at 8 degrees.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the replies so far - exactly how I hoped it would go. It looks like this is going to be a worth while thread for folks so I'm going to go ahead and sticky this thread in this section.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

UPDATE TO MY ENGINE SETUP:

I removed my Weber 32/36 and installed a Weber 38 synchronous carb in its place. Had some minor issues on the install though. The Weber 38 comes with a fuel barb fitting pressed into the driver side of the carb. I could use it like that but it is a whole lot easier to route my fuel lines to the passenger side inlet. For some reason, Weber doesn't drill and tap the passenger side inlet so I had to do that before installing it. I removed the pressed in fitting on the driver side inlet and tapped it with a 10mm x 1.0 tap and plugged it. I drilled and tapped the passenger side and installed a 10mm x 1.0 to 1/4" hose barb.

I swapped the manual choke from my 32/36 to replace the electric choke that came on the 38 (I prefer the reliability and easy of the mechanical over electric). Since I never trust factory settings, I adjusted my float levels as well before installing the carb on the truck.

Here are some shots of what needed to be done:

Tapping the fuel inlets:


Tapped:


Fitting and plug installed:


Carb installed:


I had everything setup per the Weber baseline instructions before I installed the carb so it was just a matter of busting out the timing light and turning it over. Once it got fuel it fired right up! I started making adjustments to the mixture and it seems like the Weber baseline settings may be spot on for my truck - turning the mixture screws in or out seemed to make the idle worse. All I needed to do was bump the idle speed up about a 1/2 turn to get me around 800 RPM and then set the fast idle to 1,200 RPM. Rechecked the timing and all was good! It literally took longer for the engine to heat up that it did to tune it! 20 minutes later and I was rolling out of the garage. What are the chances of that? It's pretty comforting knowing that the 38 is pretty much a PERFECT match for my engine! I have some very slight fine tuning to do to get it just right.

RESULTS:
At this point, I'd never go back to the 32/36 - At least for this particular engine! The extra torque and HP is definitely noticeable. The carb is running slightly rich throughout the RPM range so I have some slight tuning to do to lean it out. I was worried about losing the top end, but that certainly wasn't a problem at all. I buried the speedometer at 85mph (about 94 mph corrected for tire size) on the highway! I took the picture below at about 78 mph (about 86mph) because my truck was a little too "floaty" to risk taking a picture any faster. It was riding fine, but you know how it feels with these like solid axle trucks at high speed - it ain't like driving IFS that's for sure!



Bottom line, the Weber 38 is the right carb for my setup. I have nothing against the 32/36, but it just didn't match my setup. I will post the fuel economy results after a few fill-ups.

enigmaT120

Why would the 38 have cost you top end over the 32/36? I just bought a new 32/36 from LCE, mine was leaking air through the throttle shafts and idling really rough or stalling sometimes. It seems good now.

Except for the Weber with Transdapt adaptor, my truck is stock. Well I de-smogged it like Dave's but that was right before he talked LCE into offering the kit so I just ordered what I needed.

Oh -- I have 16" wheels, LT235-85R16 on them.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

Typically, low end torque comes at a cost of high end power, but that isn't exactly always the case. Plus with a synchronous carb you tune it to a more specific RPM range - ideally something in the middle that doesn't flood the engine at higher RPMs but also don't starve the engine at lower RPMs. With a progressive carb, you get extra fuel from the secondary barrel when you need it... just put your foot in it. So naturally, a 32/36 would have a wider range of tuneability (is that a word?) than a 38. But basically, I was a little surprised to see a decent gain with the 38 on the high end over the 32/36 in addition to the additional low end torque.

I just filled up the tank last night so I should know my fuel economy results soon. On the last tank I got 19.2 MPG, but I also lost about 1.5 gallons of fuel when I disconnected the fuel lines and didn't realize that it was basically siphoning the fuel from the tank when I placed the hose in a gas can to drain the fuel lines... Physics got me again...

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

Last week I refueled after the first full tank with the Weber 38. I ended up getting 20.35 mpg (after correction for tire size) on that tank. The driving was about a 50/50 mix of highway and city driving. So far, I am pretty impress with the power gains AS WELL AS the fuel economy with the Weber 38. I still may be able to suck a little more MPG out of it as I have not quite got the carb leaned out to where it needs to be.

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=But basically, I was a little surprised to see a decent gain with the 38 on the high end over the 32/36 in addition to the additional low end torque.QUOTE]

Why? Engines are air pumps, more air in=more power. A 38/38 lets more air in at all RPM than a 32/36, therefore more power. As designed from Weber it can also supply an adequate amount of fuel to blend with that air within it's specific flow limit.


If you're still running rich drop your idle jets to 40's (smallest available for a 38/38). If you're still running rich after that get a bigger cam. Bigger cam=good times.


http://www.carburetion.com/Weber/WeberDGESParts.asp

trevorthetrekker

Hey kawa, could you please upload a pic of your throttle and choke linkages at the carb?

I have a 38 as well, just curious how you have yours rigged. The kit that came with my Weber is kind of a crappy design, so I've been trying to figure out something better.

Thanks!

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

I don't have any pictures of just the linkage that I can recall off hand, but flip through my build and desmog threads and you should be able to get something from them. I can tell you this much, if your linkage is binding and it is not a genuine Weber, then it likely isn't the linkage setup - it's probably the throttle linkage on the actual carb that is binding. If you do not have a genuine European made Weber then I can almost guarantee that you have issues there.

chevyguyownesachevy

don't know if anyone could help but I'm at a loss and just wanna drive the thing off a cliff if only it'd run, I've got a 1980 Toyota pick up, has the 21r-u in it, yes I know total junk,I am a Chevy man so please bear with me, I be live it has a 20r aisin carb on it, Sumday's it starts right up and runs great and others just runs like complete ˟˟˟˟ and won't even idle with out dieing, will stay running if I stay on the throttle, but runs like ˟˟˟˟, I'm new to the" yota life" so please help any ideas? do I need to rebuild carb?

83Toyota88

iTrader: (1)

A carb rebuild is always a good place to start. I would check you timing too. 22Rs are timed at 5* from the factory. A good tune up is always good too, plugs, rotor, cap are great to do.

msane99

Engine:
20r Fresh rebuild using all standard bearings, and rings. No machine work. I deglazed cylinder walls and polished all crank journals with 800 gritt sandpaper, leather shoe lace, and wd40.

New NPR rings deglazed/honed cylinder walls at about 35 degrees using a ball hone
Thrust bearings were made in Israel
Crank bearings were also made in Israel
Connecting Rod bearings were made in Mexico.

Factory 20r head with no modifications. I lapped the valves by hand and installed new valve seals. All studs on exhaust side and mostly studs on intake.

Oil pump, water pump, timing chain all new and made in Japan

Factory ignition system with ngk plugs and wires

No name header, small test pipe like piece that connect to 1983 one piece replacement exhaust from bosal. (Fits ok)

Weber 32/36 mechanical choke, transadapt one piece adapter, factory mechanical fuel pump. No other aftermarket fuel pieces.

Factory side shift 4 speed with all new bushing, boots. Factory 4.38 gears.

pfmedic

"Mostly" restored 1980 4WD Pickup with a 20R. The truck had all new body work and paint when I bought it in March 2015. Miles are 53k on the odometer. The head machinist at the shop I used believes this to be the true milage based on timing chain wear on the wall being nonexistent. Nevertheless, it overheated for some reason at some point and warped the head, so when the engine finally quit, it was rebuilt starting in September of 2015, completed in February of 2016.

Specs:
Block bored 0.020" over, head was baked and straightened.
Engnbldr 261 Crawler cam
New oil pump
Underdrive pulley
New water pump
New radiator and hoses
Flex-a-lite fan
Completely desmogged using LCE's emissions delete kit
Stock intake manifold
Weber 32/36 with manual choke (jet setting below)
Factory mechanical fuel pump
Holley fuel pressure regulator
Front and rear breather filter
Stock ignition and MSD blaster coil 2
Stock distributor (Stock curve with anterior vacuum line to the carb and the posterior nipple capped)
NGK spark plugs
Accel hand-cut wires
GM alternator mod
TG Rock Ripper stainless headers
2.25" braided stainless flex pipe (reduces stress on the exhaust manifold studs from exhaust movement)
2.25 piping
Summit Turbo Welded Muffler
Exhaust dumped in the original spot with a welded chrome tip

Tuning:
89 octane gasoline because the owners manual says to use at least 87 octane and the cheap stuff around here is 86 octane. I think all the gas stations in my area have 10% ethanol.
Valvoline 10W-30 conventional motor oil with zinc additives added
Timing set to 13* advance
Fuel pressure is 3.5 psi
Weber 32/36 adjusted per the best lean idle method provided by Weber with the idle backed down to about 750 RPM.
20r Weber 32/36 Jet Settings at 4100ft elevation
Main Jet: 140
Secondary Jet: 140 (increased 1 size from factory)
Primary Idle: 55
Secondary Idle: 50
Primary Air Correction: 165
Secondary Air Correction: 160
Pump Nozzle: 55 (increased one size from factory, got rid of all my hesitation)

Idle Mixture Screw: is currently 3/4 turn out.

Results:
I have driven the truck about 1200 miles since first firing the engine. So far there have been no singificant problems other than getting the timing right, adjusting the valves, some small coolant and oil leaks here and there, but I figured that out. I ended up spending alot of time on jet settings when , in fact, it was the timing and valve clearance that was the issue. This setup with all the mild performance mods turns my 30x9.5 tires on the stock dog-dish wheels very well (gears are stock 4.37's)

Fuel economy was crap at 12.6mpg before I adjusted timing, swapping jets and such. I now average 17.25 mpg.

enigmaT120

Nice looking truck! Are your fender flares separate from the metal fender? They look like it's all one piece. Mine are some kind of black plastic.

pfmedic

The rear fenders are a separate plastic piece. They look solid in the photo but they are not. The flares in the front are solid and part of the entire skin.

1978hilux

Did you ever make the switch to the Weber 38? Over all statistics and info and top end issue you described with the 32 36 is exactly where I'm at. Not sure if I should make the change to the 38