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So the multi-layer-steel (MLS) head gaskets only work with a precision that is almost a mirror polished head and block. Not only that, when using the milling heads that are able to get that fine of a finish, you have to make sure your machine shop also uses what's called a torque plate that simulates the pressure of the head as its bolted in while allowing access to the full head
A torque plate is used to simulate the stresses that a head induces when it is bolted tight to the engine block, so that the most precise cutting of cylinder bores can be accomplished.
In other words, the tightening of a head to the block can sometimes slightly warp the cylinder bores out of round. Boring the block with these stresses in place by using a torque plate just makes for a higher level of precision in the machine work.
This is most important in very highly stressed racing/competition engine builds.
I don't believe that any such care was taken at the foundry, when these engines were originally machined, and i doubt that it can make any large difference in a stock 22r build.
A torque plate is not used in milling heads, or when decking a block, only when boring cylinders.
Good to know. Torque plates are for precision boring, not taking the top of the block down to a finish an mls would need.
I understand the difference in contracting and expanding in different types of metal under cycles of heating and cooling and have been told that proper torque on head studs and the constant checking of slippage / retorquing could fix it. Never heard or realized that adding a layer of sticky copper dust was a bad idea.
Joelsmithdesigns- Thanks for the info.. It sounded like rocket science regarding the surface requirements, when I was being notified post install of the requirement. ......and I THOUGHT I did my homework. I've got the studs already on it, so we're going back with a stock gasket, (and some prayers).
Thankfully enough, the left side MLS gasket is holding steady. Here is a question: Should I replace both sides with a factory gasket or take the approach that if the one MLS ain't broke don't fix it?
As far as copper coat goes, I've heard both sides of that position. I would put superglue on the darn thing at this point if I thought it might seal. I know I use copper coat religiously on my old bike builds, but that's a different story?
Regardless, it is going back in for surgery. I still will not bow to the 3.0 Gremlins! Wish me luck gents. It should be out of recovery by next week..
Please keep the feeback coming in- it is very helpful!
Me personally, I'd swap both HG's at the same time and go stock style. MLS is usually for high compression often times high boosted engines and isn't needed on most daily drivers. I almost went that way as well, but after finding out about the finish requirements (and lack of my machine shop to be able to meet those, I decided against it. Sounds like you've got the heads and block square and decked properly, but those heating and cooling cycles on a bi-metal motor can play some mean games on the MLS one that's sealing now and it may not later. I'd also re-torque the studs / nuts after 500 miles or so just to be safe.
I'll let you decide on the copper coat or not (although the tip for the spray can sucks and clogs almost instantly, however, it's easily changed out with a B12 chemtool tip to get a much better spray radius / flow if you go that way). My Copper coated HG sealed like a champ and here's a few images of the copper residue still left on the head and block after being removed (ignore the blown rings / oil consumption issues the motor had). It's kind of like eggplant or Neil Diamond, you either love it or you hate it, but everyone's got an opinion one way or another.
OK so we went back with the stock head gaskets and used the LCE Head Stud kit. Huge difference in torque requirement vs. factory bolts.... Once we got it dialed it, the 3.0 runs like a beast, like never before. I should have never listened to the recommended "GO WITH MLS- IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THE DREADED HEAD GASKET LEAK" - because it's not true (in the case of my Runner anyway). I went with what I read without being a machinist or without knowing or understanding the requirements needed to run the MLS gaskets. The trick for my truck were the LCE head studs and I'm as happy as can be with the performance of the rebuilt 3.0. Many thanks to Alex at Japanese and European Engine Rebuilders in Garland.
Aslo- No offence intended to anyone who has made the statement regarding the MLS Head Gaskets on YotaTech, it just didn't work for me. This site and these forums are still hands down the best group of Toyota enthusiasts in the world in my opinion.
Thanks for the update Dewrunner. I'll check in with Alex at the Japanese and European Engine Builders for my next build.
Another FYI, The engine in my Dad's T100 (5VZ-FE) blew a spark plug through the hood....at 240K we just decided to swap in a different one. JDM Engines Corp. in Richardson hooked me up with a low mileage (less than 40K) 5VZ-FE for $800, and it cost another $700 for the install complete with new timing belt, starter, alternator, water pump, wires / coils, and all new fluids. Truck runs like a sewing machine now. They also had multiple Diesels (turbo and non-turbo) that weren't originally available in the States if you're wanting to do a swap.... and many other motors for pretty cheap if you're just trying to get a vehicle back up and running (including 3VZ's if my memory serves correctly)
on another note, I'd always run the motor for a little while and pull the valve covers and re-torque the head studs just to make sure they haven't slipped through the first couple of heat cycles. I think you'll be happy with the stock style Head gasket over the MLS and although they're expensive, the ARP studs as well.
01-06-2017, 05:32 PM
