will 5VZE engines run lean on stock injectors?
07-23-2014, 06:07 AM
#42
Registered User
Ideal is 100% for sure a standalone, no if's, and's or but's. The only issue with a standalone is price, everything else can be done for the right money unless your state is super strict and needs the OEM ECU in place, in which case you simply swap it out for the test.
Exactly my point. You can do anything as long as you have the right amount of money. Hell, with enough money I could have a gold plated turbo and manifolds, and then proclaim to the world that this is the "right" way to do it. To me, how much something costs factors into how "ideal" it is. To me, the head ache and cost of fooling around with a stand alone is not ideal. Nor is losing OBD2 ideal.
Far as the timing, it is 100% fact that if you skew the MAF signal to make the ECU think that less air is coming in and thus inject less fuel, it will also increase timing.
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You could feel the engine knocking and the ECU reacting to it and pulling timing even with the 7th injector and not tricking of the MAF going on. on hot days or during extended boosting sessions. I would not have wanted to see what would happen if it was trying to run an extra 10+ degrees on timing before reacting to the knock. Only takes 1 good knock event to pop a ringland.
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You could feel the engine knocking and the ECU reacting to it and pulling timing even with the 7th injector and not tricking of the MAF going on. on hot days or during extended boosting sessions. I would not have wanted to see what would happen if it was trying to run an extra 10+ degrees on timing before reacting to the knock. Only takes 1 good knock event to pop a ringland.
Last edited by Robb235; 07-23-2014 at 06:09 AM.
07-23-2014, 06:31 AM
#43
Contributing Member
Exactly my point. You can do anything as long as you have the right amount of money. Hell, with enough money I could have a gold plated turbo and manifolds, and then proclaim to the world that this is the "right" way to do it. To me, how much something costs factors into how "ideal" it is. To me, the head ache and cost of fooling around with a stand alone is not ideal. Nor is losing OBD2 ideal.
I seriously doubt that the ECU would add 10 degrees of extra timing with a resized MAF housing and injectors. I've stared at my OBD2 scanner long enough to get a pretty good idea how much timing gets added or pulled based on how much I play around with the throttle, and I really can't see the ECU adding that much timing. So even if the ECU does add a little timing, so what? Even if you didn't resize the MAF / injectors, you still have to have some way of pulling timing anyways, or, as you said, you'll get knocking. So either you need a way of pulling timing anyways, or adding octane (i.e. methanol injection) to fix an issue you already had in the first place. So I guess I don't see your point of resizing the MAF and injectors as being dangerous?
I seriously doubt that the ECU would add 10 degrees of extra timing with a resized MAF housing and injectors. I've stared at my OBD2 scanner long enough to get a pretty good idea how much timing gets added or pulled based on how much I play around with the throttle, and I really can't see the ECU adding that much timing. So even if the ECU does add a little timing, so what? Even if you didn't resize the MAF / injectors, you still have to have some way of pulling timing anyways, or, as you said, you'll get knocking. So either you need a way of pulling timing anyways, or adding octane (i.e. methanol injection) to fix an issue you already had in the first place. So I guess I don't see your point of resizing the MAF and injectors as being dangerous?
Price does factor into things for sure but thats what I am getting at, the quirks and issues are not worth the little bit of savings from doing it a better way.
It depends on where in the map you are talking about, there are places were it will EASILY add 10+ degrees of timing, there are others where it will only add a few.
The OBDII port will not show you the timing it is trying to run when at WOT though as it's response time is slow slow it will just show you the corrected timing after it detects the knock and pulls timing to stop it.
For example when using the 7th injector it was running ~10 degrees of timing on the OBDII. But in reality it was trying to run ~25 degrees of timing and then pulling out 15 degrees to stop the knock.
Now it lived while this was going on but that is only because the 5vz is a tank. On a 3sgte the pistons would have popped the ringland without a doubt. Heck they popped with a lot less then that.
Just because an engine is so strong it can handle bad situations and keep running doesn't mean you should give it those bad situations. Sooner or later it will catch up with you.
Once you have tuned a car, I mean really tuned one with a standalone you see how all this stuff works together and what effects what.
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