One Gun ONLY.... Which One??
06-08-2009, 06:05 PM
#41
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I like my Glock 19, 9mm. The caliber debate could go on for pages and pages. Ultimately, get what you're comfortable with. A .380 ACP in the woods might not be better than a .45 ACP, but it's better than nothing.
If it were me, I would get a glock or Springfield XD. Both are around $500-600. With the extra money, buy a nice concealment holster ~ $60-120. Then buy some extra mags 4x$25= $100. Then spend your remaining $300 on ammo- as much as you can get.
On a side note, the Glock comes with 2 mags and some basic cleaning stuff. The Sprinfield also comes with an extra mage, holster and some other goodies.
If it were me, I would get a glock or Springfield XD. Both are around $500-600. With the extra money, buy a nice concealment holster ~ $60-120. Then buy some extra mags 4x$25= $100. Then spend your remaining $300 on ammo- as much as you can get.
On a side note, the Glock comes with 2 mags and some basic cleaning stuff. The Sprinfield also comes with an extra mage, holster and some other goodies.
06-08-2009, 06:57 PM
#42
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What a tough question to answer! The possibilities and options are nearly endless. I'll throw out some of my thoughts and personal experiences.
-I've owned a Glock 17 (9mm) since the early 90's and it's been flawless.
-I currently carry a Glock 22 (.40) at work and it's been great with no problems but I don't really like the feel of them. Sig's are oh so nice but too much $ for me.
-I bought a Springfield XD sub-compact 9mm last year and it is awesome! With the short magazine in it, it fits nicely in the back pocket of my 5.11 pants.
-I tend to be more accurate with the 9mm as do other people I know. However, the .40 was designed (from what I've read) to have the stopping power of .45 but lower recoil like a 9mm. Both points are debatable but you hopefully get what I'm trying to pass along.
-I don't own a 1911 style pistol only because I can't afford one. In some of the schools I've been to the 1911's tend to be a little more "sensitive" to lack of cleaning during the classes. To keep it in perspective though you hopefully will care-for and clean your weapon to keep it in good running condition so misfeeds will mostly not be an issue. I've seen 1911 "race guns" that cost several thousand of dollars misfeed as have Glocks. In my experience (police firearms instructor) the misfeeds or other malf's are because of limp wristing or trying to shoot 9mm's through a .40 gun. (I've seen it happen more than once...scary. It makes the brass look really cool though.) That's where practice comes in. I'm also assuming that while you're out camping you probably will not be shooting several hundred rounds without cleaning while running through some kind of silly shooting course. I don't know where you will be camping though.
-All of the handguns mentioned are of great quality but aren't worth a darn if you can't hit what you're aiming at. ie. One hit with a .22 is better than 10 misses with a .45/9mm/.40 etc.
-The military uses 9mm so it should be plentiful in the future unless they use it all up in the Middle East. LE mostly uses .40's and 9mm's so again it should be plentiful.
-I could go on but I don't want to take up the whole page and this doesn't even get into the benefits of shotguns, AR's, and whatever else.
Final "one-gun-under-$1000" suggestion: Glock or Springfield XD $529 (buy from individual if possible so no background check), a bunch of practice/ball ammo, couple hundred rounds of high quality Speer hollow points or something similar for carry, and time at a local range. All that could keep you under the $1000 mark or at least close. Don't forget to buy a good quality holster! Don't get a piece of crap holster!
I tried to be as neutral and helpful as possible. I'm by no means knocking .45's just trying to help, so all you 1911 guys leave me alone! Did I mention the holster?
-I've owned a Glock 17 (9mm) since the early 90's and it's been flawless.
-I currently carry a Glock 22 (.40) at work and it's been great with no problems but I don't really like the feel of them. Sig's are oh so nice but too much $ for me.
-I bought a Springfield XD sub-compact 9mm last year and it is awesome! With the short magazine in it, it fits nicely in the back pocket of my 5.11 pants.
-I tend to be more accurate with the 9mm as do other people I know. However, the .40 was designed (from what I've read) to have the stopping power of .45 but lower recoil like a 9mm. Both points are debatable but you hopefully get what I'm trying to pass along.
-I don't own a 1911 style pistol only because I can't afford one. In some of the schools I've been to the 1911's tend to be a little more "sensitive" to lack of cleaning during the classes. To keep it in perspective though you hopefully will care-for and clean your weapon to keep it in good running condition so misfeeds will mostly not be an issue. I've seen 1911 "race guns" that cost several thousand of dollars misfeed as have Glocks. In my experience (police firearms instructor) the misfeeds or other malf's are because of limp wristing or trying to shoot 9mm's through a .40 gun. (I've seen it happen more than once...scary. It makes the brass look really cool though.) That's where practice comes in. I'm also assuming that while you're out camping you probably will not be shooting several hundred rounds without cleaning while running through some kind of silly shooting course. I don't know where you will be camping though.
-All of the handguns mentioned are of great quality but aren't worth a darn if you can't hit what you're aiming at. ie. One hit with a .22 is better than 10 misses with a .45/9mm/.40 etc.
-The military uses 9mm so it should be plentiful in the future unless they use it all up in the Middle East. LE mostly uses .40's and 9mm's so again it should be plentiful.
-I could go on but I don't want to take up the whole page and this doesn't even get into the benefits of shotguns, AR's, and whatever else.
Final "one-gun-under-$1000" suggestion: Glock or Springfield XD $529 (buy from individual if possible so no background check), a bunch of practice/ball ammo, couple hundred rounds of high quality Speer hollow points or something similar for carry, and time at a local range. All that could keep you under the $1000 mark or at least close. Don't forget to buy a good quality holster! Don't get a piece of crap holster!
I tried to be as neutral and helpful as possible. I'm by no means knocking .45's just trying to help, so all you 1911 guys leave me alone!
Did I mention the holster?
06-08-2009, 08:24 PM
#43
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Can we just be frank? This is why one gun is not enough. There are too many variables which require different cartridges and conditions which require divergent configurations. I say one can never have enough guns. Go out and buy a bunch of them!!!! FWIW, I carry either a 45 min mag LAR Grizzly, a S&W 629 in 44 mag or a Taurus raging bull in 454 Casull when I'm in the woods.
I carry either a sig 232 in .380, a sig 2340, or an HK USPc 45 when I'm on the street. It depends on which underoos I have on that day...
I carry either a sig 232 in .380, a sig 2340, or an HK USPc 45 when I'm on the street. It depends on which underoos I have on that day...
06-08-2009, 08:42 PM
#44
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i recently bought a xd-40 and i really like it. i shot and handled quite a few before purchasing the springfield. i never really liked the feel of the glocks but that personal preference. now there is the xdm-series that gives you the option of changing the grip backstraps out to get it right for your hand. they are getting great reviews. i bought the .40cal because i didn't want to carry a .45 all the time since the .40 is for personal carry. as far as caliber is concerned i will pass on the advice that my concealed carry permit instructor (ex marine, glock armorer, sniper) gave our class: "what are the most common calibers used by local police and national guard - 9mm,.45,.223,.308. those in times of civil unrest are going to be the most available. also .9mm with +p loads in the hands of a trained shooter is pretty hard to beat. also he made a good point that if your married and you get shot/hurt in an altercation. make sure the gun could be handled by your wife/girlfriend. not too many women can pick up a .45 and comfortably handle it.
just food for thought! good luck
just food for thought! good luck
06-08-2009, 09:17 PM
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rhale and fustercluck both bring up good points. I've got older girls that can't shoot The M1A as well as they can the ar15 style I've got. Same with my wife. So gun preference would have to change to fit the situation. So now you must go forth and make the purchases of a gun in each category. In no particular order 1) M1A - Main Battle Rifle 2) AR15 variant 3) Mossberg 590 to rack the slide cuz it's just fun and cool 3) pistol of whatever type you choose 3) scoped hunting rifle 4) SKS (just because) 5) .22 pistol 6) Ruger 10/22 Rifle or something similar 7) Ruger BlackHawk with a cowboy rig (belt and holster just because everyone wants to think they're like Clint Eastwood.)
06-09-2009, 07:20 AM
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06-09-2009, 08:43 AM
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I don't have any experience on this, but maybe some who has faced a wild animal could chime in.
Last edited by cackalak han; 06-09-2009 at 08:45 AM.
06-09-2009, 08:49 AM
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great advice everyone. I'm definitely leaning XD 9mm at this point, it seems to offer the best value. Can't wait to shoot one!
I understand the benefits of shotguns/ARs and such and definitely want a 12ga (used to love my dads Remington 1100) and a .308 next, but I have to start somewhere! I've shot lots and lots of other people's guns all my life but this will be my first OWN gun.
So to expand on the XD, what do I lose by getting a sub compact over a compact or a standard? Being in California, mag capacity has a ceiling so it really isn't an issue, I'm stuck with 10+1. Does the shorter barrel lengths have a tremendous effect on the accuracy?
I understand the benefits of shotguns/ARs and such and definitely want a 12ga (used to love my dads Remington 1100) and a .308 next, but I have to start somewhere! I've shot lots and lots of other people's guns all my life but this will be my first OWN gun.
So to expand on the XD, what do I lose by getting a sub compact over a compact or a standard? Being in California, mag capacity has a ceiling so it really isn't an issue, I'm stuck with 10+1. Does the shorter barrel lengths have a tremendous effect on the accuracy?
What a tough question to answer! The possibilities and options are nearly endless. I'll throw out some of my thoughts and personal experiences.
-I've owned a Glock 17 (9mm) since the early 90's and it's been flawless.
-I currently carry a Glock 22 (.40) at work and it's been great with no problems but I don't really like the feel of them. Sig's are oh so nice but too much $ for me.
-I bought a Springfield XD sub-compact 9mm last year and it is awesome! With the short magazine in it, it fits nicely in the back pocket of my 5.11 pants.
-I tend to be more accurate with the 9mm as do other people I know. However, the .40 was designed (from what I've read) to have the stopping power of .45 but lower recoil like a 9mm. Both points are debatable but you hopefully get what I'm trying to pass along.
-I don't own a 1911 style pistol only because I can't afford one. In some of the schools I've been to the 1911's tend to be a little more "sensitive" to lack of cleaning during the classes. To keep it in perspective though you hopefully will care-for and clean your weapon to keep it in good running condition so misfeeds will mostly not be an issue. I've seen 1911 "race guns" that cost several thousand of dollars misfeed as have Glocks. In my experience (police firearms instructor) the misfeeds or other malf's are because of limp wristing or trying to shoot 9mm's through a .40 gun. (I've seen it happen more than once...scary. It makes the brass look really cool though.) That's where practice comes in. I'm also assuming that while you're out camping you probably will not be shooting several hundred rounds without cleaning while running through some kind of silly shooting course. I don't know where you will be camping though.
-All of the handguns mentioned are of great quality but aren't worth a darn if you can't hit what you're aiming at. ie. One hit with a .22 is better than 10 misses with a .45/9mm/.40 etc.
-The military uses 9mm so it should be plentiful in the future unless they use it all up in the Middle East. LE mostly uses .40's and 9mm's so again it should be plentiful.
-I could go on but I don't want to take up the whole page and this doesn't even get into the benefits of shotguns, AR's, and whatever else.
Final "one-gun-under-$1000" suggestion: Glock or Springfield XD $529 (buy from individual if possible so no background check), a bunch of practice/ball ammo, couple hundred rounds of high quality Speer hollow points or something similar for carry, and time at a local range. All that could keep you under the $1000 mark or at least close. Don't forget to buy a good quality holster! Don't get a piece of crap holster!
I tried to be as neutral and helpful as possible. I'm by no means knocking .45's just trying to help, so all you 1911 guys leave me alone! Did I mention the holster?
-I've owned a Glock 17 (9mm) since the early 90's and it's been flawless.
-I currently carry a Glock 22 (.40) at work and it's been great with no problems but I don't really like the feel of them. Sig's are oh so nice but too much $ for me.
-I bought a Springfield XD sub-compact 9mm last year and it is awesome! With the short magazine in it, it fits nicely in the back pocket of my 5.11 pants.
-I tend to be more accurate with the 9mm as do other people I know. However, the .40 was designed (from what I've read) to have the stopping power of .45 but lower recoil like a 9mm. Both points are debatable but you hopefully get what I'm trying to pass along.
-I don't own a 1911 style pistol only because I can't afford one. In some of the schools I've been to the 1911's tend to be a little more "sensitive" to lack of cleaning during the classes. To keep it in perspective though you hopefully will care-for and clean your weapon to keep it in good running condition so misfeeds will mostly not be an issue. I've seen 1911 "race guns" that cost several thousand of dollars misfeed as have Glocks. In my experience (police firearms instructor) the misfeeds or other malf's are because of limp wristing or trying to shoot 9mm's through a .40 gun. (I've seen it happen more than once...scary. It makes the brass look really cool though.) That's where practice comes in. I'm also assuming that while you're out camping you probably will not be shooting several hundred rounds without cleaning while running through some kind of silly shooting course. I don't know where you will be camping though.
-All of the handguns mentioned are of great quality but aren't worth a darn if you can't hit what you're aiming at. ie. One hit with a .22 is better than 10 misses with a .45/9mm/.40 etc.
-The military uses 9mm so it should be plentiful in the future unless they use it all up in the Middle East. LE mostly uses .40's and 9mm's so again it should be plentiful.
-I could go on but I don't want to take up the whole page and this doesn't even get into the benefits of shotguns, AR's, and whatever else.
Final "one-gun-under-$1000" suggestion: Glock or Springfield XD $529 (buy from individual if possible so no background check), a bunch of practice/ball ammo, couple hundred rounds of high quality Speer hollow points or something similar for carry, and time at a local range. All that could keep you under the $1000 mark or at least close. Don't forget to buy a good quality holster! Don't get a piece of crap holster!
I tried to be as neutral and helpful as possible. I'm by no means knocking .45's just trying to help, so all you 1911 guys leave me alone!
Did I mention the holster?Last edited by LS1Steve; 06-09-2009 at 08:52 AM.
06-09-2009, 10:11 AM
#49
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I asked a similar question as the OP recently and with help from members here decided on an H&K 45C so got on the many month waiting list.
Then a funny thing happened while waiting. I learned about the Glock GSSF association that offers instruction, competition and discounts. So, for the $35 annual dues, you get a certificate good for $100 off any Glock at a participating dealer. The best news is that inventory comes from the law enforcement stock so you go to the front of the line. Otherwise, the dealer said there's currently a 10 month+ wait for most Glocks on the retail side.
I wound up with a 29 SF, their new 10mm autoloader with reduced diameter grips and Trijicon night sights for right around $500. I know the grip looks short, but high capacity magazines that double as grip extenders are available.
The problem is that ammo isn't available anywhere locally, so mine is still cleaned and waiting for it's first day at the range.
http://www.gssfonline.com/index.cfm
Then a funny thing happened while waiting. I learned about the Glock GSSF association that offers instruction, competition and discounts. So, for the $35 annual dues, you get a certificate good for $100 off any Glock at a participating dealer. The best news is that inventory comes from the law enforcement stock so you go to the front of the line. Otherwise, the dealer said there's currently a 10 month+ wait for most Glocks on the retail side.
I wound up with a 29 SF, their new 10mm autoloader with reduced diameter grips and Trijicon night sights for right around $500. I know the grip looks short, but high capacity magazines that double as grip extenders are available.
The problem is that ammo isn't available anywhere locally, so mine is still cleaned and waiting for it's first day at the range.
http://www.gssfonline.com/index.cfm
06-09-2009, 06:46 PM
#50
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D'oh!
With due respect, most forest rangers I've met have only anecdotal knowlege of firearms and their affect on wild life. The fact is, the ones I've met preferred nobody be armed while in the woods. Whether an animal is 'discouraged' by the report of the firearm or disabled by the projectile is immaterial to me.
I am familiar with the ballistic characteristics of most commonly available ammunition and given a choice I choose magnum rated loads with heavy projectiles. Which would you rather have while facing a hungry cougar, .22lr or .44 magnum? If you don't know, go to the range and try each. It will be obvious...
Forgive me for this question, but I have heard from forest rangers that using firearms to fend off a large animal, especially a bear, is very ineffective. They're more often scared off by the sound alone. Even a large caliber handgun is not too effective in stopping a bear. One could argue a shot placed right could stop a large animal, but that is true of any caliber, including a .22.
I don't have any experience on this, but maybe some who has faced a wild animal could chime in.
I don't have any experience on this, but maybe some who has faced a wild animal could chime in.
I am familiar with the ballistic characteristics of most commonly available ammunition and given a choice I choose magnum rated loads with heavy projectiles. Which would you rather have while facing a hungry cougar, .22lr or .44 magnum? If you don't know, go to the range and try each. It will be obvious...
06-09-2009, 07:07 PM
#51
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Heck with it...get a 410 Pistol and be done with it!!!
Not much bigger than a S&W 38 Special
This looks fun, I'm looking at getting one of these sometime soon.
Not much bigger than a S&W 38 Special
This looks fun, I'm looking at getting one of these sometime soon.
06-09-2009, 07:29 PM
#52
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http://www.springfield-armory.com/
checkout the home page. xdm voted american rifleman mag's handgun of the year.
checkout the home page. xdm voted american rifleman mag's handgun of the year.
06-09-2009, 07:37 PM
#53
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I like the XDs but I don't like the trigger reset on them. On the ones I've shot, I feel like I have to release the trigger about 3/4+ of the way out for it to re-engage. On my Glock, the reset is only about 1/3 of the full release. I found that this made my follow-up shots slower and less accurate. Nothing I couldn't get used to. (I think my next HG will be a XD Compact .40 S&W)
Perhaps this can be adjusted though?
Perhaps this can be adjusted though?
Last edited by Ardent; 06-09-2009 at 07:38 PM.
06-09-2009, 07:46 PM
#54
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http://www.springfield-armory.com/
checkout the home page. xdm voted american rifleman mag's handgun of the year.
checkout the home page. xdm voted american rifleman mag's handgun of the year.
What does the M have over the regular XD's? Seems like only the customizable grips?
06-09-2009, 07:51 PM
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More info:
http://www.the-m-factor.com/
Edit:
And it looks like the M solves my issue of the trigger reset. They fixed it to have a shorter trigger pull. I think the M stands for Much More Money though. Can't remember the price diff.
Last edited by Ardent; 06-09-2009 at 07:54 PM.
06-10-2009, 09:48 AM
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I just got an email from springfield and they have no plans to submit the M for CA approval. CA requires a magazine disconnect which it doesn't have, and the loaded chamber indicator is not approved.
Ah the price I pay for paradise
Ah the price I pay for paradise
06-11-2009, 07:37 PM
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Good call, Lumpy. Those .410 pistols are just plain cool. One of those would be great if snakes are going to be a problem where you're going. Of course with that gun they wouldn't be a problem anymore.
How in the world can a loaded chamber indicator not be approved in California?! Oh wait I think I just answered my own question; it's california. I thought it was great idea after I got up one night with it in hand and started to do a visual check to make sure a round was in the chamber but didn't have any light to see.
How in the world can a loaded chamber indicator not be approved in California?! Oh wait I think I just answered my own question; it's california. I thought it was great idea after I got up one night with it in hand and started to do a visual check to make sure a round was in the chamber but didn't have any light to see.
06-12-2009, 04:26 AM
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Wab, you may have redacted it, but I still see, " I don't hit squat, so gimme a gun that holds lots of bullets"....Hehehe...
Last edited by waskillywabbit; 06-12-2009 at 06:18 PM.
