No Ammo = No Guns
02-19-2009, 11:04 PM
#21
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yeah this summer im thinking of doing the police training for remote villages here in alaska, good pay and discounts. They use glock since it doesn't freeze up from the coldness.
Oh i just found this:
Oh i just found this:
...Such a proposal is being pushed by a company that holds a patent on bullet-coding technology. But none of the 31 bills introduced last year ever made it out of committee...
02-19-2009, 11:10 PM
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Also, I've had my Sig out in below-zero weather and never had a problem with it freezing.
I would just get whichever one you feel the most comfortable shooting.
Anyway, back on-topic.
Sounds like the ammo regulations are going to vary a lot state-to-state.
Fink
02-19-2009, 11:16 PM
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it appears so, from my point of view someone is getting under the desk favors for pushing it. since this is one company that is pushing it and since they have the technology, it makes since to me.
Fond the link to the company that is pushing it.http://www.ammocoding.com/index.php
Fond the link to the company that is pushing it.http://www.ammocoding.com/index.php
Ammunition Coding System - A Revolutionary Way to Identify Bullets
Ammunition Coding System Almost every day you can open your local newspaper and read a story about a shooting where no evidence is left, except the victim and a bullet. According to the Untied States Department of Justice, there is at least a 37% chance of never finding a killer in a crime involving a firearm. By making the bullet itself a more useable piece of evidence (without having to also find the gun) we can greatly increase the chance that law enforcement will solve more crimes.
Ravensforge has developed a patent pending technology: the Ammunition Coding System ("ACS"). ACS will assign a unique code to every bullet sold. By maintaining a record of purchases of ammunition, law enforcement personnel will be able to easily trace the ownership of any ammunition involved in a crime.
The ballistic fingerprinting system which is currently under consideration is an alternative plan to ACS. However, ballistic fingerprinting has many weaknesses. Most importantly, it won't deal with the millions of guns currently owned. It is estimated that at any given point in time there is only a four to five year supply of ammunition in the marketplace. Because of these ongoing sales, ACS will provide current and updated information on all ammunition users. This information won't be available if gun ownership is used as the primary source of identification.
In 1992, approximately 5.4 billion bullets were sold in the US alone. It is safe to assume that this number is trending upward. We estimate that 8-10 billion bullets were sold in the US in 2002. ACS has the capacity to accommodate this rate of sales for decades to come without duplicating the codes.
The design of our engraving system will allow law enforcement personnel to identify the code on a bullet, if even as little as 20% of the base remains intact. Since bullets are designed for the base to remain solid and in its original shape, the probability of our codes being legible after use is very high. Tests have shown a 99% success rate in determining the code after firing the coded ammunition.
We are soliciting ideas on how to implement ACS, as well as recommendations for improvements to its use or design. We will be happy to meet with you to further discuss and explain this unique and potentially valuable system to aid law enforcement professionals.
Ammunition Coding System Almost every day you can open your local newspaper and read a story about a shooting where no evidence is left, except the victim and a bullet. According to the Untied States Department of Justice, there is at least a 37% chance of never finding a killer in a crime involving a firearm. By making the bullet itself a more useable piece of evidence (without having to also find the gun) we can greatly increase the chance that law enforcement will solve more crimes.
Ravensforge has developed a patent pending technology: the Ammunition Coding System ("ACS"). ACS will assign a unique code to every bullet sold. By maintaining a record of purchases of ammunition, law enforcement personnel will be able to easily trace the ownership of any ammunition involved in a crime.
The ballistic fingerprinting system which is currently under consideration is an alternative plan to ACS. However, ballistic fingerprinting has many weaknesses. Most importantly, it won't deal with the millions of guns currently owned. It is estimated that at any given point in time there is only a four to five year supply of ammunition in the marketplace. Because of these ongoing sales, ACS will provide current and updated information on all ammunition users. This information won't be available if gun ownership is used as the primary source of identification.
In 1992, approximately 5.4 billion bullets were sold in the US alone. It is safe to assume that this number is trending upward. We estimate that 8-10 billion bullets were sold in the US in 2002. ACS has the capacity to accommodate this rate of sales for decades to come without duplicating the codes.
The design of our engraving system will allow law enforcement personnel to identify the code on a bullet, if even as little as 20% of the base remains intact. Since bullets are designed for the base to remain solid and in its original shape, the probability of our codes being legible after use is very high. Tests have shown a 99% success rate in determining the code after firing the coded ammunition.
We are soliciting ideas on how to implement ACS, as well as recommendations for improvements to its use or design. We will be happy to meet with you to further discuss and explain this unique and potentially valuable system to aid law enforcement professionals.
Last edited by spanish-road; 02-19-2009 at 11:31 PM.
02-20-2009, 04:38 AM
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Seems to me like engraving a serial number on the cartidge would make it more likely for the casing to rupture under firing and damage the gun. Especially with guns that dont fire say closed bolt. Rapid fire machine guns etc.
02-20-2009, 06:23 AM
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There has been a buzz in our area of such a bill being considered. I know that is a law that many states are pushing. Our right to bear arms will not be taken but I am afraid they will tax it to the point that no one will be able to shoot. That was a consideration in the writing of the bill. 1 cent tax per round. (That amount would increase over time just like all other taxes.) It would get to the point that we could not afford to even buy shells for deer hunting let alone wasting a few hundred rounds at the range.
02-20-2009, 02:43 PM
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If this bill ever goes into play, you may just end up having to dispose of all re-loaded rounds though - which would suck.
I just want an AR...if I can get that, I'll be happy.
Fink
02-20-2009, 02:59 PM
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Has there been any studies or is anyone aware if this "unique" identification will have any affect on the actual ballistics of the bullet? The tolerances are so tight (grains,etc), I wonder if it would make a difference.
02-20-2009, 03:51 PM
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I doubt there will be any measurable difference. they would be laser etched leaving virtually no texture to distort known ballistics. I'd be willing to bet DC's spiked mohawk that even the best marksmen would notice a difference.
I still don't like it. It is a manipulation of the 2nd amendment that amounts to limiting access through artificially elevated costs. The result is that again only the well to do has reasonable access to constitutional rights.
Edit: Just so we're clear, the 2nd amendment is NOT about sportsmanship or hunting.
02-20-2009, 04:39 PM
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A friend just sent me this.
Subject: And so it starts!! The confiscation of guns is coming if we let this pass.
Are you ready for the House Bill titled 'HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009'. It will make it illegal to own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C. As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and you any ownership changes even if private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. We the citizenry should be as lucky this time?
Pass this on to everyone who believes in strict Constitutionalism and remember that laws only apply to those who obey them. Criminals by definition and nature do not abide by laws. New laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizen and are not written with the criminal in mind. With guns, it is not about having laws on the books to prosecute individuals, it is about taking guns away from the people so that no one has them in the first place. One last item to note, when assuming power and creating a fascist state, Hitler was a proponent of strong gun laws because a disarmed populace was much easier to control than an armed one. The kings of old also outlawed weapons of any kind in any region that they conquered to quell the ability of the citizens to up rise against them.
The Founding Fathers of this nation understood all of the above and because of this they included the second amendment in the constitution. In fact, they knew that at some point in every society's life span that the need for the population to arise came about. To this end they made they right to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical state an absolute right that could not be revoked. They did this because the first thing tyrants and despots do is to remove a populations right to defend themselves. When this is done the tyrants have no problem with the destruction of society as we know it.
Send this on to all true patriots! Protect your Second Amendment
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11057958/H...e-Act-of-2009-
Subject: And so it starts!! The confiscation of guns is coming if we let this pass.
Are you ready for the House Bill titled 'HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009'. It will make it illegal to own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C. As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and you any ownership changes even if private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. We the citizenry should be as lucky this time?
Pass this on to everyone who believes in strict Constitutionalism and remember that laws only apply to those who obey them. Criminals by definition and nature do not abide by laws. New laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizen and are not written with the criminal in mind. With guns, it is not about having laws on the books to prosecute individuals, it is about taking guns away from the people so that no one has them in the first place. One last item to note, when assuming power and creating a fascist state, Hitler was a proponent of strong gun laws because a disarmed populace was much easier to control than an armed one. The kings of old also outlawed weapons of any kind in any region that they conquered to quell the ability of the citizens to up rise against them.
The Founding Fathers of this nation understood all of the above and because of this they included the second amendment in the constitution. In fact, they knew that at some point in every society's life span that the need for the population to arise came about. To this end they made they right to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical state an absolute right that could not be revoked. They did this because the first thing tyrants and despots do is to remove a populations right to defend themselves. When this is done the tyrants have no problem with the destruction of society as we know it.
Send this on to all true patriots! Protect your Second Amendment
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11057958/H...e-Act-of-2009-
Last edited by Toddski; 02-20-2009 at 04:42 PM.
02-20-2009, 04:49 PM
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For the record, the ballistic fingerprinting required in Massachusetts has a zero return rate on tracking any weapon used in crime.
Makes ya wonder about the point of the new law and what study data is justifying it.
Makes ya wonder about the point of the new law and what study data is justifying it.
02-20-2009, 04:50 PM
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A friend just sent me this.
Subject: And so it starts!! The confiscation of guns is coming if we let this pass.
Are you ready for the House Bill titled 'HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009'. It will make it illegal to own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C. As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and you any ownership changes even if private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. We the citizenry should be as lucky this time?
Pass this on to everyone who believes in strict Constitutionalism and remember that laws only apply to those who obey them. Criminals by definition and nature do not abide by laws. New laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizen and are not written with the criminal in mind. With guns, it is not about having laws on the books to prosecute individuals, it is about taking guns away from the people so that no one has them in the first place. One last item to note, when assuming power and creating a fascist state, Hitler was a proponent of strong gun laws because a disarmed populace was much easier to control than an armed one. The kings of old also outlawed weapons of any kind in any region that they conquered to quell the ability of the citizens to up rise against them.
The Founding Fathers of this nation understood all of the above and because of this they included the second amendment in the constitution. In fact, they knew that at some point in every society's life span that the need for the population to arise came about. To this end they made they right to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical state an absolute right that could not be revoked. They did this because the first thing tyrants and despots do is to remove a populations right to defend themselves. When this is done the tyrants have no problem with the destruction of society as we know it.
Send this on to all true patriots! Protect your Second Amendment
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11057958/H...e-Act-of-2009-
Subject: And so it starts!! The confiscation of guns is coming if we let this pass.
Are you ready for the House Bill titled 'HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009'. It will make it illegal to own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C. As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and you any ownership changes even if private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. We the citizenry should be as lucky this time?
Pass this on to everyone who believes in strict Constitutionalism and remember that laws only apply to those who obey them. Criminals by definition and nature do not abide by laws. New laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizen and are not written with the criminal in mind. With guns, it is not about having laws on the books to prosecute individuals, it is about taking guns away from the people so that no one has them in the first place. One last item to note, when assuming power and creating a fascist state, Hitler was a proponent of strong gun laws because a disarmed populace was much easier to control than an armed one. The kings of old also outlawed weapons of any kind in any region that they conquered to quell the ability of the citizens to up rise against them.
The Founding Fathers of this nation understood all of the above and because of this they included the second amendment in the constitution. In fact, they knew that at some point in every society's life span that the need for the population to arise came about. To this end they made they right to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical state an absolute right that could not be revoked. They did this because the first thing tyrants and despots do is to remove a populations right to defend themselves. When this is done the tyrants have no problem with the destruction of society as we know it.
Send this on to all true patriots! Protect your Second Amendment
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11057958/H...e-Act-of-2009-
At least on the bright side those of us who have permits to carry guns have already gone through background checks (not mental) and have been fingerprinted.
Hopefully that entire list will not be employed - but I'm more than willing to provide as much documentation as they need in order to be proven mentally fit to own a gun.
Especially if my only other choice is to not own one at all.
Fink
02-20-2009, 04:56 PM
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Same with Bud's Gun Shop - I'm on the list there for the Winchester rounds I use for target shooting.
I have about 80 Federal Premium HydraShok hollow's left.
Hopefully I won't have to use those any time soon so they should be good for a while.
I'm hoping once this whole fiasco dies down a little bit we'll be able to get somewhat back to normal buying stuff for our guns - but we'll see.
Fink
02-20-2009, 05:56 PM
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Something to look out for, in addition to the bullet ID stuff, is firearm micro-stamping wherein the case will be "stamped" with a gun specific code. It can be done either by having the code on the firing pin or according to an NRA rep we (at work) talked to the other day is by having the case stamped as it expands inside the gun. All attempts have been "shot down" at this point but who knows how long we can keep it from happening.
I'm guessing the politicians will get it through one way or another. It will be so they can protect the children or so they can protect us from terrorism or whatever excuse they want to use at the time. After all, the politicians know what is best for us. Just remember to keep your shooting skills honed; you may need to use them.
I'm guessing the politicians will get it through one way or another. It will be so they can protect the children or so they can protect us from terrorism or whatever excuse they want to use at the time. After all, the politicians know what is best for us. Just remember to keep your shooting skills honed; you may need to use them.
02-20-2009, 06:10 PM
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woah woah woah. wth is this!? bullpoo this is ridiculous, its already hard enough to buy 9mm for a rifle cause you gotta be 21 to buy 9mm ammo here in CA, and a background check?!!? i bet here in cali its gonna be like background check + 5 day waiting period to get ammo. haha
