bamayote

sorry if this is a second post ya'll. i had some probs the first time i tried.
here's what's going on. you've probably read my questions on this 86 4x truck with 22re manual tranny that i've recently acquired as a fixeruper/ cat around towner.
today after tracking down a couple of probs with interior lights and checking fluids, except tranny fluid i might add, i started her up and after she warmed up i noticed some "rattling" around the rear of the engine compartment. hmmmm throwout bearing? press the clutch and it goes away. crap, the TB's only supposed to have 20k on it. that's really no biggy to me anyway.
well, after easing around in the yard to park it i hear a "CLUNK" and everything kinda locks up. no probs with the engine, just the tranny. the gearshift goes to all gears freely, but when disengaging the clutch it acts like there's a brake locked up. the brake pedal is good and emergency brake has the usual tension. even in neutral the clutch engages the engine. tried taking the transfer case to neutral and no change. 4L, no change.
if i could rock the truck i might could get it out of whatever gear it's in, but it's on an incline.
any suggestions as to what i'm looking at here?
throwout bearing or locked tranny?
thanx ya'll!

brad

TechWrench

I doubt it is the throwout bearing. Let me make sure of something you said. You said you tried putting the transfer case in neutral, with no change. If that's so, I would suspect you have a problem with the transmission. My first guess would be that the trans has two gears engaged at the same time. If possible, I would try putting the transfer in neutral and try pushing/pulling the vehicle. If it rolls, you can pretty much rule out a brake problem. I can't say for sure with your trans, but with other manual units I have worked on, it wasn't uncommon to have the shifter mechanism wear out and have enough 'slop' to allow the shift rails to slip by and cause two gears to be engaged at the same time. This would 'lock' the trans up. Most of the time, you could remove the shifter from the top of the trans and slid the rails back into the neutral position.

Try doing a search on trans problems, you should find other threads that may have dealt with this problem before.

Good luck

bamayote

well, no luck. i took the shifter cover off and could see the rails and easily move the shifter rail into neutral, but no luck. it's still in gear when the clutch is engaged.
now what? lol
this is why i bought this piece of crap. lol a huge learning experience!

sorry if the question had already been asked, but i tried a search ,but couldn't nail anything down.

thanx tech.
brad

GoudyMan

eee..... nevermind... helps to read it all thoroughly before posting

MTL_4runner

Will the truck roll in neutral?

bamayote

yeah mtl, it'll roll in neutral. in fact i pulled it back out of the driveway about 20ft. i made sure it would roll a little before pulling it.

thanx for helping ya'll. i should be able to work on it more tomorrow so keep the suggestions coming.

thanx again
brad

TechWrench

It still could be a trans problem. Even though the shift rails move, they may not be moving the shift forks. You mentioned in a later post that you were able to move the truck when it was in neutral. Did you mean the transmission, or the transfer case?

bamayote

transfer case in h2wd and tranny in neutral.

does that help?

thanx brad

TechWrench

OK, if you were able to roll the truck in that condition, with the clutch pedal NOT depressed, it would seem to indicate the trans is not locked in two gears. Now I would try putting the trans in a gear, and put the transfer case in neutral and see if it will still roll.

tuckeraustin

Bad Synchros???

bamayote

first i want to thank you for the help!

well, i first thought i wouldn't roll with the transfer case in neutral, but i was mistaken. i've edited this post since so if you read it before i'm sorry.
here's what i've got. tranny in 1st and transfer case in N ...... it rolls, but the clutch is still engaging something when the engine running.

thanx
brad

zedex

I would put the tranfer case in neutral. Press the clutch in with a board or a buddy. Keep it in. Put tranny in neutral. Crawl under the truck and turn the driveshaft. It should turn freely. Put the tranny in 1st. crawl back under and try to turn the driveshaft. It should turn and you should hear the gears turning as well. Try all the gears. 1st should be easiest. getting harder as you go through the gears. Try reverse as well. If you cant turn the driveshaft while its in any gear you have some internal problems.A piece of something could have dropped between some gears or bound up somewhere. If it turns in any gear and sounds fine as in you hear the gears turning. You can move to the transfer case and trouble shoot that..

bamayote

boy i'm having real trouble replying. ---
ok here's what i've got after reading your post.

i hope this makes sense. i tried a couple of things and i'll try to break it down.

tranny and TC in N -- driveshaft turns free, but i can also see the front shaft turning as well.

tranny 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th R and TC in N -- driveshaft turns free, but the front shaft also turns.

tranny 1st and TC H2 -- driveshaft is rough, but turns feels as if it tries to hang.

tranny 2nd 3rd 4th 5th and TC in H2 -- driveshaft turns free and increases in resistance with taller gears.

tranny in R and TC in H2 -- very hard to turn and feels like 1st gear with regards to trying to hang.

tranny 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th and R and TC in L4 -- lots of resistance on the driveshaft, but still rough in 1st and 4th.

did that make any sense? i've still got daylight lol gimme some morethings to try!

thanx ya'll
brad

zedex

Sounds like 1st gear problems. Everything you did sounded right except for the 1st in 2H. Have you tried driving it again. Because if you can turn these things by hand the motor will certainly turn them over. When you were doing these tests were the 2 back wheels turning in oposite diections or was just 1 wheel turning. Make sure the 2 rear wheel turn nice and smooth. With the clutch out in 1st gear transfer case in 2H. The rear wheels should turn in opposite directions smoothly.

zedex

I wonder if when you were parking the first time you noticed problems you had it in 4hi. If you were on a hard surface the front end would seem to bind up because your not supposed to use 4wd on hard grippy surfaces. The front wheels while turning have to travel a further distance in relation to the rear wheels so the drivetrain will bind up until something releases or breaks. Make sure its in 2wd high with front hubs unlocked if you have locking front hubs. Take it for a drive.

bamayote

lol everytime i try to post a reply something logs me out after taking a while to try to explain everything i'm doing. by the time i finish my reply it asks me to log in again and it looses my reply................ whew!!!!!

i'll try one more time.

"""Sounds like 1st gear problems. Everything you did sounded right except for the 1st in 2H. Have you tried driving it again. Because if you can turn these things by hand the motor will certainly turn them over. When you were doing these tests were the 2 back wheels turning in oposite diections or was just 1 wheel turning. Make sure the 2 rear wheel turn nice and smooth. With the clutch out in 1st gear transfer case in 2H. The rear wheels should turn in opposite directions smoothly."""

ok, i performed all the prior tests with the clutch IN (disengaged). with the clutch OUT (engaged), i cant turn a thing. the driveshaft is pretty much stuck.
only the drivers side wheel was turning, but i noticed the passengers wheel was pretty tight. i took the wheel and drum off and the passenger wheel is the one that turns now. .. lol
with the rear on stands, i can go through all the gears and reverse with the engine running and clutch OUT (engaged), but i'm hearing the same rattling i'd heard to begin with. (input bearing?) BUT, the wheels will turn in neutral as well with the clutch OUT (engaged).

""I wonder if when you were parking the first time you noticed problems you had it in 4hi. If you were on a hard surface the front end would seem to bind up because your not supposed to use 4wd on hard grippy surfaces. The front wheels while turning have to travel a further distance in relation to the rear wheels so the drivetrain will bind up until something releases or breaks. Make sure its in 2wd high with front hubs unlocked if you have locking front hubs. Take it for a drive.""

i'm very sure (99%) that i was in H2wd when all this started. however, i HAD spun the tires a little in a wet part of the yard, but nothing major like mudding or anything.

here's what i'm thinking. i've probably got a bad input bearing and stuck gear. in any case i'm going to have to pull the tranny.


thanx again zed and tech!!

bamayote

tucker,

i wasn't ignoring you. i was thinking synchros as well, but i wont know if that's the prob unless i pull the tranny and i think that's the road i'm heading down.

lemme ask one more minor question.

is there a bigger access panel under the carpet that would give me a more access to the top of the tranny?

thanx
brad