Homer666

Hi folks;

My wife and I are looking to upgrade from winter tenting to winter "camping" in a travel trailer. My question is with respect to tow weight.

We have it narrowed down to an 18 foot camper with a dry weight of 2305 lbs / hitch weight of 240 lbs / and GVWR of 3740.

Will my 2000 4runner auto with the 3.4 L handle the above trailer? We plan on using it frequently for trips up to 1000 miles one way. I checked on some of the dedicated RV forums and their advice seemed to be split between "no problem" and "hell no - dump the Toy and get an F350 diesel". Note that the majority of the travel will be through the Rocky Mountains (but we will have a transmission cooler and load levellers in the back.)

There is a 13 foot model (nice but pretty cramped) which takes about 500 lbs off the dry weight and the GVWR. Would the difference be noticeable enough to warrant considering this smaller unit?

Any input would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks again;

James

CoedNaked

I have a strong suspicion that you'd have no real problems towing the above. And you *could* upgrade the gears to a higher gear numerically which will be more performance oriented.

Sorry, call me naeve, but when you're buying new trailers such as the one you mentioned, to dealers ever let you have a "test tow?"

4RUNR

Try someone's trailer that is 3500. Then decide if it feels comfortable. I highly doubt you'll find the 3.4 power or braking adequate for it to be an enjoyable trip.

4RunnerFever

I think you'll be just fine. 3.4L with the right hitch is rated at 5000 pounds. Trailer brakes would also help. You could always get it supercharged and then there will be no power issues. The 4runner is designed to tow the weight limits in the owners manual.

Just my 2 cents (which with inflation isn't worth much).

jacksonpt

Technically can it do it... yes. Will you enjoy towing that much... depends. I tow a 3200lb boat with my 96 (stock gears, 33" tires). It does fine on the flats with OD turned off... but hills are a bit of an effort. If you're going over a lot of hills/mountains... it won't be fun, but you can do it.

Braking will be the big issue - make sure yours are adjusted and in good shape. And make sure the trailer brakes are working properly as well.

I'd give serious thought to adding an aux tranny cooler for some added insurance. They are cheap and easy to install.

Toddski

Howdy James.
I was in the same boat as you several years ago. I had a '97 4runner and wanted to purchase a travel trailer.
I did a bunch of research and i ended up selling my 4runner and i purchased a GMC Yukon.
The main reason is what jacksonpt stated. Brakes!

I also found out that the weight that is advertised is not accurate.
The trailer i was looking at was a Jayco Kiwi that was 23'. Well the sticker claimed the trailer weighed in around 3,200 pounds.
Now that 3,200 pounds is the weight that the trailer left the factory. Now you add an a/c unit, awning, propane tanks, spare tire yada yada yada....
Next thing you know, your trailer is around 4,000 dry.
Now you start to add liquids:
1 gallon of water = 8.3 pounds
1 gallon of propane = 4.5 pounds.

So your liquids really start to add up.

When i'm traveling i'm running about 4,400 pounds for my trailer.

NOW....
its just the opposite for your 4runner.
The book says that your rig can handle 5,000 pounds. Well that 5,000 pounds is for a bone stock rig, meaning no a/c, no sun roof, no radio and 1 person weighing 150 pounds and 1/2 a tank of gas (1 gallon of gas = 6.2 pounds)

Now you add these items to your rig and all of a sudden your 5,000 pound towing capacity becomes 4,500 pounds or so.

I'm sure you will be fine. But you would want to be real cautious and slow.
Its amazing trying to make a sudden stop with a bunch of weight behind you

You will need the oil and tranny cooler if you are traveling in the hills.

Having a weight distribution hitch is a must!
With the 4runners short wheel base i would even purchase a sway bar for the times when that big semi rips by you doing 80 mph.

Hope i don't come across to tell you not to do it. I think the 4runner would do fine.

Do a search on this site for a guy named Mark.
HybridRV
He had a 3rd gen 4runner with a 4 cyl and he did fine with a 18' trailer.

Hope this helps a little

Just make sure you know the exact weight of the trailer before you purchase it.

Todd

yamarocket630

I know it's not exactly a 4runner, but speaking from a power and braking aspect, I towed a 3000lb car on a dolly (probably 3400lbs total weight) 200 miles through some big hills with no problems last month. I never had to downshift lower than 4th to keep my speed at 55-60 (non interstate) and could have easily gone 65+ if I wanted. Braking was also a non-issue. The only time I really noticed the weight was starting from stops up hill.

Homer666

Thanks a lot for the advice fellas - I really appreciate it. I'm going to try to make the 4runner more "towing friendly" (just can't see myself selling the "mistress" - actually I consider it more my therapist.

I did forget to take into consideration all the extra weight I have on the 4runner (winch/skid plates, sliders/arb sahara/roof rack, etc). So I'm going to upgrade the braking system (slotted rotors, etc) and the suspension (hey...it gives me another reason spend $$ on the 4runner) - also, whichever trailer we do end up with must have the trailer brakes. BTW, excellent advice Todd - you brought up a lot of issues that I didn't even consider.

Next step is rent similar sized/weighted trailers for a week and head off to the Rockies. Cruise around and make my decision based on that. By the sounds of it, the trailer weight I'm shooting for is on the line: any heavier and it is easier to say "Nope...not a good idea"....any lighter equals "no problem". I'll report what I find out.

Thanks again guys - not only for the trailer advice but also for the great tips I've picked up from Yotatech in the last couple of years owning my 4runner.

James

Flamedx4

jacksonpt - You really ought to give some serious thought to changing your gears... 33s... auto... stock gears...towing....

Homer, add a cooler, get trailer brakes and load equalizer hitch, you'll be fine. I towed way more than that - regularly - with a 22RE 4 runner (5speed though, much better) and never had any problem. The driver needs to be up to the task though - if you have poor driving skills it won't matter what you drive or tow, if you know what I mean... Common sense, slow down early, don't get in tight situations, maintain the rig properly, learn how it all works, adjust the brake controller regularly etc. No worries.

bbagwell

You can tow that much, but I would get trailer brakes for sure! My father-in-law towed his 26' with his Taco. Now he has a Cummins Diesel Dodge. Just because you can tow it with the Toy doesn't make it smart.

denverbikeguy

Most RV trailers will have trailer brakes installed at the factory - heck most dual axle cargo trailers above 12 feet or so include that, or have it as an option. However never ever tow something this heavy w/o those brakes installed and tested!! I pulled a 7000lb RV trailer with a 250 diesel and the trailer brakes were not working at the time. Everything went well until I had to panic stop at an intersection when the light short-changed on me. It literally just shoved that 250 through the intersection, locked tires and all. 4Runner brakes will NOT stop a heavy trailer quickly by themselves.

I'm reading this thread with some interest as well, since I'm considering the purchase of an 8x20' cargo rig for my race motorcycle and associated gear. My old Tundra would have made a better tow vehicle, however I think the 4runner will do ok. Trailer is about 2500lbs empty, and a racebike doesn't weigh a whole lot. My guess is I'll be up around 3500-3800lbs when loaded, so I figure as long as I don't put the weight too far forward (i.e. make an effort to properly balance the weight) I should be ok.

Now, with a trailer this long and heavy, what are some improvements I can make to my 97 runner (5spd so I don't need a tranny cooler at least)? Already planning on the brake controller, however trailers do tend to sag the rear of my truck quite a bit. What sort of suspension upgrades might make this a little better (and safer) experience for me?

Rick F.

James,

My Jayco weighs 2800 lbs. (nameplate) and I usually tow with it and the truck filled-to-the-gills (family, gear, firewood, all the campground fixin's...) and I find the 3.4l quite capable. As stated above, watch out for those hills and be very cautious with the brakes. I towed this same camper with my old 3.0L. Now THAT was way underpowered. Off course, the deckplate mod on the 3.4L adds a few additional ponies...

Homer666

Hi fellas;

Here's a quick update on the towing situation. The trailer is approximately 3,000 lbs (including 15 gallons of freshwater and loaded fridge,),- and a total of 18'9" from hitch to back-end. It has 14" tires on a single axle. The tongue weight is around 250 lbs.

With respect to the 2000 4runner, I installed the Hayden 678 cooler and a temp gauge. The weight is already pretty high with the skid plates, ARB bumper/winch, sliders and cargo box full of recovery and camping equipment.

The actual towing equipment consists of a Prodigy brake controller and EasiLift Weight Distribution hitch with the 550 lb bars.

I took the trailer on a 3 hour trip north of Calgary - the terrain is fairly flat with some moderate hills. Elevation is between 3,000 and 3,500 feet.

When the weather conditions were calm and the terrain flat, I could maintain 2,900 rpm and 65 mph fairly easily. Transmission temperature stayed around 140 with some increase on the hills. Things were going so well, I clicked the O/D on - the rpm's dropped but the temperature climbed to 180 at which point I turned the O/D off. Note that this was without any downshifting by the tranny - but the temp kept rising.

There was some "bucking" in the trailer but after stopping a couple of times and experimenting with the hitch settings, the bucking is pretty much under control. Another 100 lbs of "tongue" weight and I think that I won't even know the trailer is behind.

The W/D hitch is really a nice piece of work - no sagging in the 4runner rear-end - however, be careful that it isn't "tightened" too much; it takes weight off the back end of the truck and could affect traction (I ended up spinning the back tires on some wet pavement). The hitch took care of a lot of the trailer sway but I could still feel the semi's pass me (I got used to it but it was pretty hairy for the first few times when I didn't have the settings correct).

Braking was excellent with the Prodigy brake controller. I had the trailer "lead" the truck by a split second so there was absolutely no pushing whatsoever. I did have one panic stop when a gentleman decided that my lane was nicer and cut in front of me at a light that just turned yellow - then he decided the yellow wasn't fresh enough and slammed on his brakes. The trailer and 4runner stopped smoothly and without any issues.

Now for the problems - number one is WIND - I ran into a mini blizzard that had to be blowing at least 30 mph - I couldn't get over 50-55 mph. Number two is hills - anything fairly long or steep is going to suck the 4runner back (but the tranny temp did not top 160 on those hills as long as I had the O/D off). Number three problem is gas - probably around 250 km on a tankful).

Over-all, I was surprised how cool the tranny stayed - if you keep the O/D off, then towing didn't seem to have much of an effect. I was happy with the cruising speed and RPM's on the flats - I was much less happy having to keep my foot to the floor when I hit hills or wind.

Now I have to figure out how to increase towing power - I am considering a supercharger but some of the posts I read said that it would "ping" the engine to death on the hills. I'll do some more reading before I post my specific questions but any suggestions in the interim would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks;

James

khaug

I put c. 25K miles on our '98 LTD towing a Porsche on an open trailer - about 4,000#. My advice on power is to simply get used to what you have and learn to tolerate long periods in 2nd gear at high engine speeds. My '98 would run for long periods at 4800 rpm in 2nd gear through the WV mountains with no problem. I suggest you learn to manually downshift the tranny if you don't already - it makes a huge difference.

I strongly suspect that the reason you're seeing elevated tranny temps when using OD is that you're encountering conditions which cause the torque converter to unlock for long periods. The churning and "slip" in the torque converter is what generates the heat. I learned to distinguish between lockup and unlocked states by watching the tach, and would turn OD off if the torque converter stayed unlocked for more than a minute. I had no auxiliary tranny cooler and never saw the A/T overheat light come on and never had a bit of tranny trouble. The tranny was performing like new when I traded the '98 @ 75K miles.

My rig consistently got 15-16 mpg while towing, which I felt was pretty reasonable. But I'd guess your camper has more aero drag than my rig, which will eat fuel and reduce available power.

Good luck.

87TurboYota

I wouldn't be worried some much with being able to pull it cause with a 3.4 L. It should do fine but I'd be really concerned with stopping that heavy load. I think
braking should be your main concern. Test it if you can.

Flamedx4

87TY- didn't you read James' story? He tested it pretty thoroughly and the braking is good.

James - one word: gears.

yellowspeedracer

Homer it sounds like you've pretty much experienced what i would've added. i have used my tacoma to tow my car on a 25' (from the hitch) flat bed trailer and i think the total weight is about 4500#. i have a 5spd, 3.4 and use the prodigy brake controller too. i wouldn't think about towing it without trailer brakes but with the trailer brakes, there's no problems stopping whatsoever. it's definately slow going up the passes in the mountains but i just put it in 2nd or 3rd and take my time...i don't think that many semis passed me
i get about 13mpg which really sucks having to fill every 200mi. i looked into an aux. tank but the only ones i found were $500+

nope, no hemi here

Homer666

Okay....as opposed to starting a new thread, I'll just add to this one about my updated towing experiences.

I now have a S/C with full URD kit from Gadget as well as a full OME set-up with the stiff springs front and back, etc.

The trailer is still the same as noted above except with extra water, batteries, and propane tanks, it is now closer to 3,600 pounds.

The S/C really makes a difference to towing - I can now hold the truck at 65 miles per hour even in the face of some pretty stiff winds (and that is still with a lot of gas pedal left). Going up-hills (one really steep one in particular) has gone from 20 mph with the gas pedal near the floor to 45 mph at 3,500 rpm with the gas pedal about 1/2 way down. I could go faster but I'm not crazy about the revving.

Gas mileage while towing has actually improved over the non S/C towing. Unfortunately, I now have worse gas mileage while not towing LOL.....

The OME set-up has given me about 2.75" to 3" of lift so the trailer angle is now "nose high". This means that I have to watch the back end (and dump valves) when crossing ditches etc. The ride is stiffer with the trailer attached but feels much more controlled over rough ground. It should also be noted that I am now looking at 4:56 gears to assist with towing but the 4wd shop I deal with is having a difficult time tracking them down.

Transmission temperature has climbed on average from 140 to about 170-180 while towing on the flat with it peaking at 210 while climbing a really long and steep hill.

Over-all, the S/C, the URD kit, and the OME set-up have made my towing experiences more enjoyable and were definitely worth the expense. I'll post a further update once I get the issues with the gears straightened out.

Thanks again to Yotatech for all the great information;

James