ravencr

I need help on my STM-6 install now if anyone is available. When teeing into the crankshaft sensor signal, the truck will run. But when I cut the sensor wire and feed it through the SMT-6, it will fire, but it won't run. So, I connected the Blue/Black to the Crankshaft sensor wire, thinking it needed a pull-up, but it keeps it from firing at all. If anyone has a clue what's going on, please call me at (865) 607-8999 and I'll call you right back so it's on my dime. I would greatly appreciate it.

Chris

Dr. Zhivago

Chris,

Are you SURE you have the right wire? The wire is going to be the NE+ Wire and not the NE- (G1) wire. On my truck it is a RED wire. The NE- wire is Green.

The wire is probably shielded, like a Microphone or RCA Cable, so you will have to make sure that when you cut thru the shield, that it is re-connected. To clarify, you will need to cut thru both the shielding and the wire inside. The wire inside is the actual Crank Sensor wire. Splice that wire into the SMT-6. Then make sure the Shielding is resoldered back together, or solder a wire to it on each end of the splice and ground it.

Hope this helps.
Dr. Z

ravencr

Yes! I made sure it was the right wire before we even started tearing things apart. Plus, when I initially started out, I just teed the yellow SMT-6 wire into it, calibrated the computer, and it computed the RPM's the same as the tach did. It was great. Then I cut the NE+ wire and everything quit working from there. It won't idle with it cut. I don't know what the deal is.

I thought is was supposed to be shielded, but it wasn't. So I didn't have to worry about that. I don't know what the deal is, but I logged some outputs on the computer, and I'm hoping to analyze them and see if I can figure something out. But, the only way that I can get it to run is to reconnect the NE+ wire to itself and totally bypass the SMT-6 for the crankshaft sensor stuff right now. The truck still runs like crap, and to be honest, I think it's still the supra MAF causing me all the trouble.

Chris

ravencr

Hey guys, just another addition to this that we can all think about. My truck's throttle response is horrible unless I barely ease on the throttle. If I punch the throttle is just bogs down, sometimes pops back through the intake. Plus if I rev it up and down I'll get a lot of black smoke out of the tail pipe. Any ideas on what the deal is?

Also, When I hole the throttle at anything above idle at a steady rate, such as 1500 rpm, the air/fuel ratio slowly but surely goes really rich to the tune of past 11.6:1 After that, I don't know where it goes. What would cause this? Would this be why it's not running correctly, creating the black smoke, and giving me really poor throttle response. Plus, when I drive it, I can't barely give it any gas or it bogs down andhas no power.

HELP!!

Chris

midiwall

Yeup.

Adding a piece of equipment like the SMT-6 while you have major MAF problems is probably not the smartest idea in the world. By doing this, you're modifying a LOT of variables at once and I suspect that the SMT-6 is having a field day trying to figure out what to do with the data that it's getting.

Did you ever get the truck to run even close to right with the Supra MAF? By the looks of the other thead, you're depending on the SMT-6 to be able to clean up the MAF data, right? But yet there's no hard evidence that it will be able to make this much of a correction.

Even if it could, you would need to calibrate the SMT-6 against a known good baseline and THEN introduce just ONE major variable. If you don't, it's going to be VERY hit and miss to get it to deal with what it's seeing.

You sold off your original MAF and intake before seeing this one fail, right? If so, then I would suggest a trip to the junkyard and look for a stock MAF and intake system. Install it, hook up the SMT-6 and get it calibrated, then see what you can do with the Supra MAF.

You're biting off a lot here at once Chris, and I would lay odds that the headaches are only just starting.

midiwall

Where did you get this number? Did you get your BR-3?


Yes. Black smoke is a good indicator that you're running very rich.


You need to get the truck back to a known good baseline Chris. If you don't, you'll be fighting this long after the patience of folks on the forum run out.

ravencr

The SMT-6 tells you the air/fuel ratio on the screen. I was told by Louie that I would be able to correct the MAF sensor voltage difference by adjusting the fuel zero calibration. I have it maxed out right now at +127, but if I go any leaner it won't idle, but when I rev it up it continuously goes richer until it's off the chart at 11.6:1. I know the stock O2 sensor can't read accurately that rich anyway, so I guess that's why it doesn't go any lower.

By the way, I've still got the stcok MAF sensor, I just really don't want to tear apart all that I've done right now to put it back on once I put the supercharger on there. I think I'm really need to have to get the bigger injectors to make it work, but I was really hoping this wasn't the case. I'm still not sure yet.

Something is definitely wrong with the Crankshaft sensor connection on the SMt-6. It won't work on mine, and I'm at a loss for what to do at this point.

Chris

midiwall

Okay, but what data is it using to give you the numbers? If it's reading the MAF sensor itself, then it has to know the dynamics of the sensor in order to compute a valid ratio. You already know that the voltage scale for the *normal* operating range of your intake is drastically different than what the MAF sensor is reading. I think that Gadget had implied that full scale on the Supra MAF indicates 5-6 times the air flow of the stock MAF. Given that you haven't really done anything to the engine to increase airflow, then you're looking to rescale the MAF output by quite a bit.


Okay, but you've spent the whole day on this as it is, right? Putting back in the stock MAF shouldn't take you anywhere near that long. How much more time do you have to fight this?


Ummm... I'm sure you'll want to hear it from someone else other than me before you listen, but this would be a horrible idea right now.

You started with an engine that had a messed up MAF. You installed a front-end to the ECU that has signal mapping and scaling capabilities and things aren't working well at all. Now you want to kick up the injector sizes to get more fuel into an engine that's already running too rich.


Why do you say that? You said above that you "calibrated the computer, and it computed the RPM's the same as the tach did. It was great." I have to figure that the SMT-6 is using the crank sensor to compute RPM.


The classic debugging method for a problem is to remove any and all variables that you can. It's a classic case of process of elimination. There's one HUGE variable that you have the power to remove but you don't seem to want to. As someone that's lived for a logic orientated paycheck for over 20 years, that's really frustrating for me to see.

I dunno what to tell you Chris.

ravencr

Something is screwy on the Crankshaft pickup. Right now it's tee'd into the NE+ wire, when in fact it's supposed to operate the same if I cut the NE+ wire(which I did), and run it through the SMT-6. But when I do this, the truck doesn't run. Something is wrong with this.

I'm not sure what the computer software or SMT-6 hardware uses to calculate the fuel ratio. All I know is that if it's true, it runs real rich once the throttle is applied and held at a constant RPM or increased. If what you say is true about the Supra MAF that it's 5-6 times more air flow, and I'm running rich, then I would have to move the fuel zero calibration the opposite direction that I have been. But, when I do that, more black smoke accurs, which gives me the indication that it's running even richer.

The more I think about this, more I think my wiring is wrong, but I know for sure I've got it hooked up identical to the way it says to do it accoring to Perfect Power.

I know I could take everything off, but that's no fun. I have a spare car, so I'm not so much worried about the downtime, although I would like to be driving it again. It sounds like you are frustrated with me, and I can understand your view on this.

I don't know where to go with all this, but I sure don't want to take things apart. I want to first figure out what the heck is going on with the SMT-6 Crankshaft signal wires and get that to work before I do anything else. It should run as if I have it now just teeing into it, but it doesn't. Until I get that fixed and adjus the timing a tad to get it running again, I'm changing anything. I either think the wiring diagrams are wrong or the SMT-6 unit I got has a faulty Yellow and Pink wire for the Crankshaft sensor wires.

Anyone else have any comments?

Chris

ravencr

Just so everyone knows how I installed it, attached you'll find the direction I typed up based on what I got from Louie and my 1998 Toyota Repair Manuals.

Chris

cstary

Chris -

sorry to hear that you are having problems, but we also appreciate you being the "test-pilot" on this setup for us. as with most new systems, there are usually some substantial issues that surface, and hopefully you can keep things in perspective (i.e. it would be surprising if there weren't ANY problems the first time around!).

anyhow, some clarification on the facts seem to be in order:

* what engine modifications did you make in conjunction with installing the SMT?
* were you running the supra MAF successfully before the SMT?
* are you running stock injectors or larger injectors now?

i agree with mpulver in that the best-case situation for a new system development would have been to install the unit in a completely stock setup first. in this case, stock would mean a setup that didn't necessitate any ECU signal alterations.

however, again let's all keep this in perspective and recognize that beggars can't be choosers, and we are lucky that we even have a volunteer to go through with this, even if it's not in the most ideal situations. furthermore, there was no reason to think that the SMT couldn't handle any modifications that the AFC can't, since they essentially overlap in function and operation. the AFC can handle the supra MAF signal, so one would expect the SMT to as well.

what seems to be really needed, though, is to talk with an expert about the SMT, in particular the analog settings. like i mentioned to you yesterday, i think the problem lies in some software parameter. i still think you should get Bob at IDA on the phone, and go step-by-step through the software setup and see if there are any deviations between your setup and the successful installation on Brad's truck. hell, he may have even accidentally supplied us with misinformation . . . after all, you and i got it 2nd hand or 3rd hand. in lieu of that, i would return the system to a stock operating condition and see if you can work out the bugs.

anyhow, i would like to thank you again for being the one to deal with these headaches.

creed

Duffdog

If this was my truck ravencr, i would do the following:

First off, I would get ahold of a shop manual for that specific year of 4runner--and not a Haynes manual!!! If you want the specific info for the wire harness for your ECU-- and trust me they differ year to year, you should get a Toyota manual published by toyota USA from the dealer-- That manual will show each and every wire and its function and parameter coming out of and into the ECU. Second, I would put all stock equipment back on the runner including the stock intake manifold and be sure the truck runs correctly. Thirdly, I would aquire a digital oscilloscope with peak hold and capture functions and write down what the signals are doing when they go into the ECU-- then I would reattach all my mods and see what the signals are doing-- If there is a drastic difference between the stock signal and the modified signal, then you have isolated the problem(s). I do believe that the SAFC may be better adept at modifying the input signal from the supra MAF than the SMT-6. If that is the case, why not have the SAFC modify the signal for the ecu and then use the SMT-6 for the other functions that the SAFC does not have. No one said you cant have both units operating simultaneously, however, I would be wary of leaning with one device and richening with another. In any case-- an oscilloscope would be tremendously helpful in diagnosing what signals are doing what.

Tim

cstary

tim -

excellent idea of monitoring the signals directly. i agree with what you're saying except that from a labor perspective, i think that replacing the stock manifold is overkill. at vacuum, the engine should be operating at similar values with or without the s/c . . . the parasitic drag of the s/c at idle is minimal.

at least from a diagnostic perspective, removing it would make little to no difference, at a cost of quite a bit of labor.

however, i think the supra MAF should come off, and injectors should be stock. those changes make a huge difference.

creed

ravencr

Hey guys,

I'm glad to see some responses to all this mess I have created for myself.

Creed, I appreciate the call the other night. To answer some of your questions first, I have installed the larger 190 LPH fuel pump, and Supra MAF and custom intake all about the same time. The problem, though occured when I installed the Supra MAF. It would idle real rough, so I then I talked to everyone I could and most would say that the voltage was too low, so the computer was running real lean. So I was told three main things: Correct the MAF sensor voltage using the SMT-6, have to install larger injectors (360cc), or remove everything and start over. So, I opted to buy the SMT-6 and see if it could alter the MAF signal enough to correct everything back to normal. So that's what I attempted to do. During this same time, I went ahead and installed the larger fuel pump, because I know I will need it as soon as I finish all this up. The truck would idle before I hooked up the SMT-6, but I couldn't really drive it because it was running extremely lean, which I know isn't good, so I opted to purchase the SMT-6 to correct the signal coming off the MAF sensor. Right now, I'm running stock injectors, and Gadget just told me that I need to go back to stock and then work my way back up starting with the SMT-6 with the stock MAF and then decide whether I wanted to run the Supra MAF again after I got the old stuff running correctly again.

Creed, I appreciate your understanding with me on this, and I agree that most of you probably won't have these problems simply because your trucks were running good before you begin the SMT-6 installation. I talked with Louie today, and he gave me some usefule information that I'm going to try tomorrow morning, and I see if I have any luck. He's under the impression that I should easily be able to adjust the MAF signal back to the stock level, but to be honest, I don't have a clue what the stock MAF puts out. Dr. Z said he may have some info for me soon on that. But, I figured out how to find out if I'm increasing the MAF output signal or decreasing it. I also learned what some of the fields mean on the software, so I will have a better understanding tomorrow morning. I don't have time now to discuss, but if I figure something out tomorrow morning, I will let you know what I've got so far.

By the way, I called Bob on Wed. and I still haven't heard anything back. I'm not sure he wants to help since I bought it from Louie. Louie has been great though. Very helpful for sure.

Duffdog,

I've got the Toyota manuals and all the wiring is correct. I've checked and checked and checked to make sure everything was good. Gadget also confirmed this for me, so I know I'm good in this area. Louie said that once I get the Air/Fuel Ration in good condition, I'll probably be able to reconnect the SMT-6 to the Crankshaft sensor wire to adjust the timing. We'll see. From what I gathered from Louie, he said that I'm running way too rich, which is good to a degree. At least it isn't running way too lean like it was before. Now I just have to find out where it needs to be.

Guys,

I'm going to take one further attempt to correct what I've got right now: Supra MAF, Larger Fuel Pump, Stock injectors, normally aspirated. If it doesn't work by tomorrow morning, then I'll take everything off and see if she'll run again.

Thanks for everything, and I'll keep you all posted on the progree or lack of progress.

Chris

mhawker

Could the fact that you have (if I understand you correctly) a larger fuel pump, larger MAF on an otherwise stock system... i.e. stock injectors, stock intake, have anything to do with your truck running weird?

I think you are working the wrong direction. The only reason you need larger injectors, MAF and fuel pump is to accomodate the Supercharger. Then you need the computer gadgets to help the truck mix the right fuel since the stock computer can't adjust to the new fuel equipment.

So, does anyone know if the upgrades he has now (BUT without the SC) have anything to do with his problems? Although, as has been pointed out, I think you may have a couple of problems.

Good luck,

Mike

ravencr

The thing that caused me all the trouble was the Supra MAF. That's when it wouldn't run correctly. That's all I know for sure. The other things don't really have anything to do with it or at least that's what I think, because it didn't change anything when I put the fuel pump on there. I'll have more in a few hours. I'm going to attempt some more adjustments on it this morning.

Chris

ravencr

I'm so freakin excited right now. I just got it to run right now. It's running close to perfect!

I'm pumped. It's was all in the Air/fuel ratio calibration in the analog map. I put the fuel zero calibration back to zero in the global settings, and then just adjusted the analog map settings. The column to the right of the RPM scale is now set at 1, and everything is working great. The next step is to cut the Crankshaft sensor wire, and put it through the SMT-6, but I'm going to make sure everything is working properly first. If cutting the NE+ crankshaft sensor wire works this time, the whole problem was the air/fuel mixture. I'll keep you all posted.

Chris

ravencr

Well, I cut the NE+ wire and fed it through the SMT-6 Yellow wire and out the Pink SMT-6 wire back into the ECU, and it actually runs, but it won't let me give it any gas. It just dies! Something still isn't right, but I'm not sure what it is yet. Oh, by the way, when I had it connected, I reset the ECU and the check engine light finally went off. That was awesome! But, now it's back on. I'm going to try some other things and let you know what's up soon.

Chris

ravencr

Hey guys,

Today is the first day I'm going to drive my 4Runner to work. Everything seems to be fine on it, but it doesn't want to shift well up at the higher RPM's. Anyone have any idea why it doesn't want to shift up above 5000 RPM's. It revs way out and then I have to let off the throttle for it to shift.

Chris

cstary

work??? it's saturday?!?

chris - glad to hear you got the truck up and running. the shifting is worrisome to me, though. the shift points are electronically controlled by the ECU, and i wonder if the RPM signal is being distorted by the SMT at the higher RPM's? have you checked to make sure the truck's tach corresponds to the SMT readings at the higher RPMs?


creed