RgrChu

I just heard from an AC shop that I need my condenser replaced. My guess is that it's a result from an accident that I had 1.5 yrs ago. I've since changed Insurance, so I probably can't go that route.

This leads me to my question....How easy...err Difficult is it to replace my AC Condenser?

My other thought is that since there is 0 R-12 Coolant left in the system...would it be safe or less risky to fill my AC system with
R-134...I remember a post saying that the combo of coolants may corrode any rubber gaskets or o-rings...

A shope wanted over $700 to do all of the work including the r-12 coolant which probably accounted for $100.

Does anyone have any suggestions on alternate solutions? Anyone know of any good AC shops in the Seattle area?

TIA

MTL_4runner

You can do it yourself and save money by just purging the system and venting it to the air but it is not very environmentally friendly. I suggest taking it to a shop and have them recycle whatever R12 is left.

Then replace the condenser up front (should be just basic tools) and make sure to lube all the seals when you put it together so you get a good seal on everything and don't destroy an o-ring.

Then take it back to the shop and have them pull a vacum on the system to check for more leaks in the system....if none, then now it is ready to fill.

Now you should flush it and charge it with a kit like this:
http://jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=341626&BQ=st

I highly recommend switching over to the new (not so new now) 134a because it is cheaper, easier to get and even more environmentally friendly.........you can fill it yourself or have a shop do it.....really depends on your ability. They do make cans for the do it yourselfer so you can always try but I suggest once again to take it to a shop to make sure it is done right. If the system is underfull you won't get good cooling, overfull and it can be destructive to the components.

The R12 is likely alot more expensive than you think.
I haven't filled a car with that in a while but I do remember outrageous prices per lb..... a while ago (2-3 years) it was almost $70 per lb, now I bet it is near $100. Really don't bother with the R-12, just switch right away.

mtnfreak

Before you do this, you might want to check with the local, state and federal offices in your area to see what the combined prison term and restitutions will be. Spend $20 to have a professional recover the old refrigerant.

Ben(Miami)

Don't do that. I was the one who wrote the post about the "conversion" kits with R12 and R134a. Replacing a condenser is relatively easy if you are slightly mechanically inclined. It's about as difficult as replacing the radiator. Should take you a Saturday or so. Refilling the refridgerant is another issue.

If you are going to do a R134a conversion, do yourself a favor and change out (AT LEAST) ALL of your o-rings, any flexible (rubber) hoses, and your dryer. Then, dismount your compressor and extract as much of the old R12 oil out of it. Then refill with equal amount of R134a oil (PAG or ester), reassemble and refill.

My suggestion, if you are looking to save a few bucks, is to do the condenser yourself, then have a shop refill your refridgerant (R12) for you. Should be about $100 or so including labor. If you don't have any leaks in your system (vacuum check it before they refill it--make sure it holds vacuum for at least an hour), it should last you years before your next refill.

If you want to convert, take the time to do it yourself (shouldn't take more than a weekend), and replace all the important parts so you won't have to do it again for a busted seal. If you end up needing frequent refridgerant refills, $10-15 a pop for R134a versus $100 each time for R12 is the way to go.

MTL_4runner

Isn't that pretty much the same as what I mentioned?

RgrChu

Well the shop did do a vacuum check and the only leak they found was in the condenser. As for any leftover refrigerant that I wouldn't want to let escape into the atmosphere, the shop said that the system was bone dry.

How long would you think replacing the condenser and lubing it properly would take?

How much R-12 coolant (cans are 14oz) will I need to test and fill my ac system. Also how much R-12 lubricating oil will I need?

Anyone have experience w/ a product called Freeze 12...it's supposed to be completely compatible with R12 systems....however I'm getting reminded of the old saying, "that if something sounds too good to be true...."

Thanks

MTL_4runner

Do yourself a favor and just switch right away to the real 134a.....it won't be worth the hassle otherwise.

The time it takes totally depends on your skills (maybe 45 min with air tools to maybe 5 hrs if you are fumbling around for parts and what not).

As for system capacity of freon and oil (for me it was usually 3 to 1 on the ratio of oil to refrigerant) but the best thing is to call the dealer and ask the correct fill amounts of each or refer to your factory service manual if you bought one.

Ben(Miami) did have a good suggestion for replacing all the o-rings while the system is bone dry. I would just do all the ones up front because everything will be apart when you do the condenser anyway. The evaporator is a royal PITA to get at but if you feel enlightened you can do the o-rings in that too.

When you go to fill the system, do it slowly.....don't just open the valve and let it rip.

DarylD

Your 94 4run should already be the 134a system.If you would like some help PM me

Ben(Miami)

Yeah, but my beef was with the "flush" kit. That stuff doesn't work. The ONLY way to convert from R12 to R134a without ruining your seals is to actually unmount your compressor to get rid of as much of your old (R12) compressor oil as possible, replace it with R134a oil (PAG or ester), and then vacuum check and refill.

Regards,
Ben(Miami)
'02 Limited 4x2

MTL_4runner

I am not a fan of the flush kit either. I have always done it the way you were talking about.
Will the R12 oil ruin the 134a?

Ben(Miami)

Roger,

If you're going to go R12, you have to have it refilled by a licenced mechanic, unless you have a "source" for R12 or unless you have some left over from the good ole days when you could buy a box of it for like $20. I would just replace the condenser myself and then take it to a shop to have them refill the R12 *IF* you are fairly certain there is NO leak (i.e. get the vacuum check done AFTER you replace the condenser and make sure it holds for an hour). It simply is not worth the cost, your time or effort to convert a R12 system into R134a in my opinion. If you don't have a leak, the $100 or so of R12 you put in should last YEARS. I've seen the R12 replacement products. They're not exactly cheap, and some are downright dangerous (one is based on propane, I think).

Anyway, even if you have another leak elsewhere (even after you replace your condenser), R134a is a still a BAD way to go in a R12 system. The combination of water (humidity) in the air sucked in at the leak plus R12 plus R134a oil eats away at your seals and you'll find yourself replacing the whole thing before long. I speak from experience. I had a R12 car that had a leak, I was lazy, cheap, didn't want to spend $100 each 2-3 months to refill the R12, or the $500 to fix the damned leak, so I used one of those aforementioned kits to "flush" my R12 system and change it over to R134a. That way, for $4 a can, I could refill my system myself every 2 months. 18 months later, I blew out one of my seals (literally exploded while I was driving:pat, and when I took apart the system from compressor to condenser to evaporator, I found that MOST of my O-rings were in bad shape due to the erosion of the refridgerant mixture. You do NOT want to find yourself pulling a evaporator. It sucks....

Regards,
Ben(Miami)
'02 Limited 4x2

RgrChu

Guys...Thanks for the replies...I've been thinking about solutions to the $$$ crunch.

Let me know what you think of my idea.

So far from current shops diagnostic...only leak is in the condenser.

Option 1:

New condenser is $160 (cheapest I saw). Either get help or do the install myself. Prices for R-12 about $100 or more for the coolant itself from the shop.

I'm guessing labor will be about $100-$150, unless I can find good cheap help

Total Option 1: $360-$400

Option 2:

Condenser: $160

Getting the MVAC (Motor Vehicle AC) Tech Certification via EPA site...$19.95

Buying 3 cans of R-12....approx $50-60 plus shipping $10 via good ole eBay.

Cans of R-12 oil (what's the correct ratio for oil to lubricant? (MTL, 3:1?) I'll have to check that out) are about $9/ can.

Providing materials for a shop that provides labor....maybe $300-$350, if I'm lucky.

Doing all the labor myself and finding someone with a AC vaccuum....about $300

What do you guys think? Can you add anything to help get me better numbers? My ballpark SWAG is $300-$400.


TIA