Rich2000

Hi all.
I've removed my rear end on my 2000 4Runner (4.30, e-locker, ABS), and there's some play in the pinion shaft, about 3/16" or so according to the person helping me. Also, gear oil leaks right out of the pinion shaft (at the approx 3 in. diameter round piece that rotates and connects to the 2nd member). The mechanic in the family told me that it was the pinion seal and not an expensive part to replace.

I didn't pull the axles out yet, but saw that when I removed the drums on mine, they were dry as a bone, no gear oil anywhere. BUT there was gear oil on the ABS ring that we could feel after removing the ABS sensor when we were removing the rear end from the truck.

So the question is, if the inner axle seals are blown, and the gear oil reached the ABS rings, did it also reach the bearings?

In other words, can I simply pull the axles, replace the inner seals, clean off the ABS ring, and re-install the axles, and replace the pinion seal? Or does the fact that the gear oil reached the ABS rings mean that it reached the bearings, and I have to buy all new axle components (bearings, retainer rings, ABS ring, etc?

Any and all help, suggestions and advice is welcome, as you're all more familiar with this type of repair than I am.

Thank you in advance,
Rich

Rich2000

Bump. Ok, so if there's play in the pinion at all it appears that it's more likely not only the seal that's leaking oil but also a pinion bearing issue, from everything I've read so far. So according to other posts, I may be better off simply replacing the diff. and the inner seals, as a start, and epoxying up the existing housing. Ok, but I'm still up in the air about the condition of the axles.

I'm surprised that out of about 120 viewers nobody can tell me if the axle bearings are likely to still be good or not if there's gear oil on the ABS ring. There has to be someone that has encountered this situation, yes?

Right now $500 worth of parts ($250 each axle) to rebuild each axle is way more than I can afford, especially on top of a replacement diff (I don't even care anymore if it has the e-locker on it, but hit has to be 4.30 ratio).

Trying to go the "whole rear end" route has been failing miserably since last September, because many of the yards hire idiots that tell me that they have a 4.30 rear end, "confirmed", and when I rent a car and show up after a 1-3 hour drive, it spontaneously turns into a 4.10 or other ratio, or in some cases, doesn't even have an e-locker! Even requesting pictures isn't as helpful as one would hope.

Can anyone at least tell me how to determine if the bearings on the axle are safe to use once I replace the inner seals and fix/replace the diff. pumpkin?
Btw, the rear end is already off the vehicle.

Thanks for any and all help,
Rich

DRCOFFEE

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-ge...d-3rd-gen.html


http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-ge...xle-seals.html

These threads will help. I would suggest that you use only Toyota parts and if you have 150,000+ miles, do the bearings.

Parts source: www.toyotapartsales.com Aka toyota of Dallas has great prices on parts.

corrected

98SR54RUNNER

iTrader: (1)

The URL is www.toyotapartsales.com, you added one extra "s" in there. I think I've seen you do that a couple of times when posting that link, always throws me off, haha.

Rich2000

Thank you for the info. I've already viewed the first link several times in the last few months, and that's why I'm wondering if I need to have the axles redone: there's gear oil on the ABS ring but none in the brake drums. I don't know how to tell if the bearings are fine.

The truck only has 115k miles on it, so it's nowhere near the 150k mark. Actually, I'm hoping to sell it well before the 150k mark.

I checked out the prices at the Toyota of Dallas site, but unfortunately the shipping charges alone exceed any price markup at the local dealership. I suppose that if I had a large enough order it would save me some money, so will consider it if that's ever the case.

The 2nd link was helpful because it tells me how to check for future seal leaks easily (and if they're still occurring how to resolve it), but still doesn't tell me how to determine if my bearings are already damaged.

Maybe I'm not asking the right question. Let's say I get a replacement pumpkin and then either clean up and epoxy up my own rusted housing or get a replacement housing. Is there an obvious sign that my bearings were damaged once I start driving again, or do I run the risk of the entire wheel and axle exiting the vehicle on the highway with no warning? Any thoughts?

DRCOFFEE

In my experience, if the bearing are worn out, they will start to moan at 40mph and grow louder the faster you go. Its a drone that will be hard to miss. But it starts around 40mph. If your truck is quiet up to 70mph, the bearings are fine. A little gear oil wont hurt but too much will flush out the bearing grease and leave them dry. So I would say you are fine.

Yes if you plan to order more items they can save you money. You may want to look at the lower ball joints as well. They tend to fail before they give you warning. They were not designed to be fail safe. The joint is under constant separating force until the ball jt pops outs. From what i have read, the steering will get rough just moments before failing. Search the forum on it.

If it were me, I would not change the bearings at 100k miles unless I had had an accident where they could have been damaged.

I believe the only way the axle will come out while driving is if the axle breaks. The hub bolts to the housing so it would have to be catastrophic failure for the axle to fall out.

Rich2000

Well, that makes me feel a little better, thank you for your diagnosis. If you mean the rear ball joints on the control arms, they seem to be ok from initial inspection. If you mean the front lower ball joints, I had the right one replaced 2 years ago when it failed inspection. After replacing it and showing the old one to the mechanic/inspector, he said "oh, that's not as bad as it felt. I guess it didn't need to be replaced after all." At least I won't have to have it done again soon.

Unfortunately, at least about a week of driving prior to the rear diff failing I heard whining / humming as low as maybe 25 or 30 mph, and increasing in pitch as speed increased. When it broke down on the highway last September I tried adding gear oil to simply see if I could drive it slowly another 4 miles to a relatives house, but it was making too much scraping and thumping noise (roughly once every tire revolution), so I had to have it towed. I was assuming that something in the diff went (tooth, etc); and just a few days ago discovered that there's a problem with the pinion seal, and possibly the pinion shaft and probably the pinion bearing. I assumed that this happened because it ran dangerously low or dry on gear oil. As a result, I was also assuming I'd need a replacement diff. Btw, I noticed when I drained some of the diff oil from the fill cap 2 days ago (I couldn't get the drain plug off), the gear oil was black. I assume this can't be good.

I'm going to pull the axles out this weekend and try to inspect them. Hopefully if it was an axle bearing that was causing the hum/thump it will be obvious and wiggly. From what I can tell, it appears that it'll be less costly to (1) replace the pumpkin (if I can find one at a reasonable price) and replace the inner seals (~$18) than it will be to (2) replace one or both axles and need to have pinion bearings/shaft repairs as well. I'm also going to try to remove the diff from the housing, if I can get the heavily rusted nuts off without shearing anything off. I've got PB Blaster so hope that'll help.

So the plan now is to remove the axles, and inspect them looking for something obvious. Then I'll try to remove the diff from the housing and again, look for obvious issues.

Then I have two choices: either clean and epoxy up my housing and reuse it, or wait a couple of weeks to see if I can keep/use the non-locker housing that came with the 4.10 diff that I bought from a yard last weekend that I'm disputing now because it was labeled and sold as the wrong ratio. If the yard doesn't come pick it up I'm going to sell the 4.10 diff that's in it now to help cover the cost of getting a 4.30 diff. It all depends on whether I can find a 4.30 with/without a locker on it, with respect to which housing I'll have to use.

If I end up having to clean the housing, any suggestions on what to use would be helpful (Dawn/water to cut the oil before applying epoxy, if I have to use the old housing? Brake cleaner? Kerosene? I've heard various suggestions but have no idea what value they have). I'll search this forum and others to see exactly what I should use before putting in a replacement diff and replacing the inner axle seals and will post an update or another question if necessary.

I'm going to try to borrow a camera next weekend so I can post some pics, too. Might help with some of my questions.