MTL_4runner

Yep, a bracket would be ideal (that is what I did for the LATCH retrofit).
Large fender washers at the very least.

.....just keep in mind you'll be hanging the equivalent of about 10k lbs on those seatbelts during a bad accident (300 lb guy at 30-40 G's worst case).

habanero

Recap: was trying to find shoulderbelt setup for the middle seat. I cart 3 kids around pretty regularly, a 14, 11 and 3 year old. The 3 year old is now very near the end of the height limit for his Triumph baby seat so it's time to go to a booster.

Ok, here's the update...
I've since found boosters that have 5 point harnesses and allow for a higher weight.

A Britax Regent...80# or 53", harness only, huge.

A saftey 1st Apex 65....harness to 65# or 52", then can be moved to shoulder belt position and used to 100# or 57"

A Sunshine Kids Radian 65....5 point harness to 65# or 49". This is the narrowest seat of the bunch. Sunshine Kids also makes a Radian 80 for up to 80#, but the harness slot height is the same and the 80 costs quite a bit more. Going by his growth charts, my guy will reach the height limit well before the 65# weight limit.

So now I've got to decide...
Regent= The widest seat out there, 1 1/2" wider than my Triumph DLX. Tallest harness slots at 19".

Apex 65= Slightly narrower than the Regent. Harness slot height is 17.5", after that you can use a shoulder belt. By the time he's out of the harness the oldest should be out of the house. This seat felt flimsy and I did not like the pointy corners on the bottom of the seat.

Radian 65= Is the narrowest seat of the 3. Harness slot height is 18". I'm still trying to find someone still using this seat at its upper limit, to see if their kid's butt still fits...the seating area is 10" across. The boyo's rear is 8" wide currently. The radian is nice and deep, though, for good leg support. This seat isn't for a hefty kid, but mine's pretty scrawny.

I'm looking more at the harness heights over the height limits for the kids because of the variety in torso to limb ratio. My son's torso is currently 15".

If I get the Regent or the Radian I will have to buy one more seatbelt compatible booster to meet MO law. By that time the oldest will be out of the house. I don't really care that I have to buy another booster, though, I'm more concerned about the safety of all three kids than anything. I'm still looking for these seats local, I want to check them out personally.

The Apex's shorter harness height means less time in the harness but it's shoulder belt compatibility means it would be the last seat I'd have to buy. I wish the construction was better.

Currently I am leaning towards either the Radian or the Apex, but more the Radian due to better construction.
If anyone has experiences with any of these seats or knows of another possibility I'd love to hear about it.

reggie 00

Just a thought,
on my 83 i needed anchor points for "the Dudes" car seat so i added them using grade 8 hardware and some careful drilling. Tested them I'm 275 on a good day and they weren't moving.

For you deal i think i would get some flat steel and weld up a hidden brace system under the headliner. Maybe a side to side bar with some front to back for rigidity. These should provide necessary upper anchor points, and use the ones the lap belt currently use for the lower.

I agree its never a good idea to put the little ones in harms way.

In your last post you said you found bigger seats, i thought the same thing but he grew out of it pretty fast, growth spurts.

Good luck,

if anything a well thought out properly secured roll bar like they have done using the 1st gen would be a pretty easy deal.

MTL_4runner

I've been looking at booster seats for my little guy too but I'm not sure I know the difference between the ones that do fare well in crashes and ones that don't. Anyone have some pics of good vs bad booster seats so I can see what I'm looking for? Up here they even have booster seats with no back to them, are these the "low back" booster seats?

Great thread Hab!

habanero

Lots of crash test info on the net...seems to me the biggest concerns with the backless booster are if you have one of those squirmy guys that won't stay in the shoulder belt or if your seat backs are too low/without headrests to provide head support. The big point is getting them into a position where the belt won't cause excessive injury in a crash. Stay away from shield boosters (that use a plastic restraint instead of a harness or seatbelt), I don't even know if they make those any more.

I'm going with the highback booster for
A) The extended 5-point harness time(safest option and because of lap belt)
B) The squirm factor
C) More support when he falls asleep

Perhaps when I have to get that last booster I'll go with a backless so he doesn't shoot me for making him be in a booster when he's a 'big boy'. Then again, thanks to the new MO law, all his friends will be in one too.

MTL_4runner

Thanks for the info!

What is the law in MO regarding when kids can be seated in vehicles like adults?

I think up here the law is that children who weigh less than 40 pounds be in child seats. Children who weigh more than 40 pounds be in booster seats if they are younger than age nine and-or less than 57 inches tall.

gohawks

Don't worry about a car seat/booster seat after 24 months.

http://www.freakonomics.com/times0710col.php

habanero

A last update. I did go with the Radian 65. I will warn you that it wouldn't fit a plump kid at all, having a very narrow seat. Luckily I've got a long tall scrawny guy and it fits him well. He is 32# and too tall for the Triumph DLX. He'll hit the height limit by about 7 years if he continues his growth pattern and well before he hits the weight limit. The other kids are happy to have some room back, this thing is only 17" across the seat, you could put three in a row back there.

Anyway, MO law says after 40# kids must be in a booster until either 8 years old, 80# or 4'9, whichever comes first.

Either way, I'm sticking to a booster. Interesting article, but they were working with perfectly still properly positioned 'children', and it didn't even measure abdominal damage. As for minimal differences, it's my kid. Minimal counts. Every small kid I've ever dealt with in a car puts the shoulder portion behind their head because otherwise it's across their face. The belt rides just below the rib cage. The booster will also keep them from sagging out of the belt when they fall asleep.

That's all for now. If anyone wants to see any pics of the boyo in the Radian give me a holler.

neliconcept

I didnt read through the 25+ posts but did anybody mention attaching the shoulder belt to the back of the seat?

habanero

Not strong enough. Nice try, though. I did find an add-on that you use with the lap belt and LATCH (which I don't have) to make a 3-point.

By the time the kid's grown out of the Radian the oldest will be off to college and I'll be able to use a shoulder belt booster.

Too many kids to cart around. That's my problem.

RadRacer'86

My recomendation: I've done a ton of reading on the subject of safety restraints in the past couple of weeks because I am installing 5 point harness in my driver and passenger seats. The only safe way to mount a harness is at a horizontal angle. You can not mount it to the floor in the old stock holes, which would be so convienient. I think the easiest solution to your situation would be a harness bar right behind the rear seat. If you want to you can even make it removable. You won't find one that will fit stock, you'll have fab one up. I opted just build a whole cage. Just do some research on crossbars and I think you'll get some ideas of how to work it out. Use DOM and I highly recomend Wesco for your harness. you can even get a 3 or 4 point if you dont want all 5. I just got two 5 points from them and the customer service has been outstanding. I dealt with Wes when I called.
Wesco
http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo...cingbelts.html
A page on roll bar basics..I found it very informative when I made my desicions about the roll bar material, wall thickness, etc..
http://www.advanceautoparts.com/engl...20040301rb.asp
Lokar is a supplier of harness bars. At first I didn't have a good understanding of what one was but this website showed me what its all about. They don't sell a model that works for our trucks but it will help to give you ideas.
http://www.lokarmotorsports.com/harnessbar.html

surf4runner

thats what i do in my datsun, since it has crappy shoulder restraints, just call it a "racing (or offroad) seat"



re vera, potas bene

neliconcept

I just got a dumbass Idea, you know the 1rst gen rollbars that some people have been putting in their 4runners? that could be a harness point for the shoulder belt...

even though i bet you dont want to secure some big ass rollbar to the frame.

habanero

Read through 'em neli.....I thought it'd be a great way to convince my hubby we needed a rollbar.

Didn't work, though.

neliconcept

damnit its already been said, well i got tired of reading through em haha. I guess you could still use the same aspect except with some kind of small bar in the back that mounts to the frame but isnt a full blown 1rst gen rollbar. just a wide upside U bar that is right behind the seat

colsoncj

Excellent thread!!! I've been needing to look into something like this for my nephew... hes suddenly taken an interest to my runner and wants to go for rides...

habanero

Stay tuned to the other thread....
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/good-child-safety-seat-going-off-road-112176/
I'll be posting pics of the boyo in the Radian after he wakes up this morning.
I'm interested in what people have come up with for off-roading, especially when they fall asleep and have noodle-neck.
How old is your nephew?

colsoncj

My nephew is 4. I havent taken him yet, but I dont think I'll have to worry about him fallin asleep... I think he's going love it! He already wheels the poo out of his powerwheels truck... I caught him tryin to climb a big dirt pile with it...

habanero

If only we had a dirt pile....the boyo would be up to the same thing.....every time we see a lifted vehicle he gets all excited about the 'monster truck'.

colsoncj

Mine does the same.... Gotta love thier spirit, now if only I had thier energy.