NMcruser

I just read on another website that the 86-95 IFS and steering system is substaintialy stronger than the coil/double a-arm and rack and pinion system of the 97-current tacomas? Anyone know if this is true or not>

Flygtenstein

96 and newer with the rack and pinion is, without a doubt, stronger for hard wheeling.

Add a rack cooler and it will last with 35" tires.

I destroyed two tie rod ends, one pitman arm and one braced idler arm as well as bending one of the tie rod sleeves in my IFS in the 95 while Schaefer's 99 with 35's had no sweat.

This is now my 9th idler arm and a complete rebuild of the front end in the last 6 months and 10k miles with 15-20 trails.

MNBOY

Adrian,
You gotta ease up on that poor beast, or come on over to the dark side with the SA crowd......

Flygtenstein

Yeah, I know and it is true.

If it doesn't happen by May though, I could have the greatest pavement pounder ever.

rockota

This is the first time I've EVER heard a person say that!!!

Personally, I think the previous generation is way stronger. So much so, that Toyota kept it around for a number of years longer in the countries outside of the US.

Idler arms can be braced and upgraded, Torsions are worry free, manual hubs are available for all models, recirculating ball steering box, ball-joint spacers can be used for more travel (not a fan), etc.

There are always upgrades that can be done, hower, including frame braces, idler arms, shocks, etc.

Flygtenstein

I killed a 555 idler in a Downey brace, both bent it and trashed the bushings.

At the last three events I have wheeled, idler arms have cost me 4 obstacles when they folded and wedged against the frame.

Not to mention I cannot keep and alignment for more than one wheeling trip.

I have wheeled quite a bit with Steve, Steve and Jeff as well as Jim. Their new IFS just keeps on trucking while I am breaking things.

Glenn

As far as the recirculating ball v. rack and pinion goes, the recirculating ball style is what they use on big trucks. Rack and pinion setup is more of a car derived design. Both have their weak spots.

deathrunner

Personally I think a built recirc system is better. If you get a heim steering kit and total chaos' idler arm, you'll be unstopable. Even with the stock Idler arm, I have slammed that thing jumping my truck and it is still killer. My long travel kit has way more flex and angle induced on the steering than a stock IFS setup. Granted I don't think my stock idler will last forever with this abuse, but with 5 pretty rough trails, everything is still looking good.

I have replaced the tierods, even though the old ones were cool. And I replaced the idler arm bushings.

The shop I go to specializes in Toyota 4runenrs and trucks and they say the rack and pinion is no good for offroading, especially with speed in mind.

A heim kit and chaos idler is the beefiest setup out there.

Flygtenstein

Thanks for refuting my experience.

I have in fact been lying. In the head to head comparison anecdote I have offered, I really have never even met those people or wheeled for that matter.

Stock to stock, my money is on the 3rd Gen. Why? Because my stuff is regularly dead when theirs is not.

deathrunner

What the heck are you doing to your front end????? I slam mine down repeatedly jumping it. And the Flex that my long travel kit provides surely puts greater angles (i.e. more stress) on the idler arm and tie rods.

I just don't understand why you are having such trouble with yours. If I remember correctly, you have crawler gears...so momentum isn't going to be as common.

Why do you think yours wears out so quickly???? I don't mean to refute your experience, I woudl just like a better understanding of what is going on. It goes against my experience and I want as much informationas possible before changing my mind.

Nitro Hotpants

Ill try and explain...
have you ever tried turning with a front locker? If not then Ill tell you it is VERY hard to turn with it engaged. That being said, Adrian wheels in a lot of conditions that require that locker to be engaged many times while out on the trail.
Also, Adrian wheels A LOT, and not like high speed racing and all that stuff, its a lot of rocks and very gnarly terrain. Sometimes you will have your front tires wedged in between rocks and there is a lot of stress on the steering and axles to keep the tire moving and pointed in the right direction.
So when this happens countless times over the years the steering gets weaker and weaker. Apparently to the point of failure or at least damn close to it.
There were times out on the trail where I thought that Adrian had busted a tie rod end because there would be times his tires were both facing IN! It was really quite a sight to see.

I guess the moral of the story is, high speed jumping and "flexing" isnt the only thing that can wear out your steering. Stress and a front locker will also contribute to the wear and tear of the steering system

I hope I have at least cleared it up a little.
I too always thought the steering on these trucks was superior, maybe it is, but in Adrian's case, it is not.

-Casey

DealMaker

My money would be on the 3rd gen, too. Clearly seems like a no-brainer based upon your experienced head to head comparisons.

SteveO

After having wheeled both types of steering, there is no doubt in my mind that the Rack and Pinion is much stronger. I, as well, chewed Idler arms up when wheeling my '86. They just aren't strong enough.

Case in point, click on the picture and take a close look at the direction of Flygt's tires.

Click on this picture for the 1600x1200 Resolution shot(161kb):


Click on the picture for the 800x600 Resolution shot(39kb):

rockota

Sheesh - what's up with the high emotions over a discussion about steering systems? My word! This doesn't have to turn into a pissing match, folks.

I have a good friend who wheelined a locked IFS front for a DECADE and NEVER had the problems that Flyg has. Yes, he wore parts out. Yes, he replaced parts from time to time. But not at the rate that Flyg has, so I too would have to wonder if there isn't something else worn out or causing the problem. But crap, I ain't gonna whine about it if someone disagrees.

That said - my old Tundra, with the exact same susepension as the 3rd Gen 4Runners and Taco's, couldn't keep an alignment to save it's life. The other two Taco's I owned and two 3rd gens I owned always has problems with cupping of the front tires. My current Taco is the only one with this Gen's suspension that seems able to keep an alignment. That is *MY* experience.

Cebby

This should solve one of the weak links in the 86-95 steering systems:



$299.

They have an IFS truss for $35 also.

www.chaosfab.com

deathrunner

Sorry if I sounded like I was whining. I was just trying to figure out what the deal was. Rockota's experience accounts for more of what I have witnessed.

Nitro- Thanks for the explanation. Trying to fight the locker's "self-centering effect" would undoubtedly put more stress on the steering components. That basically answered my question. With that understanding....does rack and pinion deter this stress?

Cebby's Idler photo is what I was suggesting.

Everybody smile

BruceTS

If your comparing stock VS stock the rack and pinion is by far stronger.....

Adrian couldn't even turn his steering in some situations and there wasn't anything out of the ordinary with his linkage.

With the rack & pinion design, the major problem is the stock rubber bushings, but once those are replaced with aftermarket urethane, the alignment problem is no longer an issue.

Tire cupping can be caused by hard braking/cornering, but in most cases, it's due to unbalanced tires.

Nitro Hotpants

Here is a good example of Cheese's steering going haywire...

914runner

Holy Shiat! That is wack!

Tacotex

I've owned both. So far, I like the rack&pinion a lot