CoedNaked

Everyone always bitches that Toyota won't come out with a real offroad truck. And when they say this, what they mean is they want a solid front axle. I mean the TRD Offroad package is a pretty good foundation to work from and I'm personally partial to IFS because I don't do any rock crawling or get into sitautions where articulation is critical. But I can see your point.

But the thing I find interesting is look at the new Toyota 4wd owner magazine. Second issue and look who has bought a page to advertise the new Toyota Tacoma? Well it's Toyota! Did you see the picture of the new Tacoma in the Mud and the thing about when the going gets tough, the tough press the locking differential? Maybe toyota has recognized that there is a huge following for 4wd owners in the USA. A lot larger than they thought.
And so they have advertised.

But the thing I don't understand is with all the bitching, whining, and complaining, and all the money guys spend on mods, and SAS swaps, paying for aftermarket gears, why hasn't anyone gotten together a REAL, serious petition asking Toyota to produce something with a Solid Front Axle. We are all pretty well organized here at Yotatech now here in 2005. There are other hardcore Toyota boards and clubs that have websites that I'm sure many of us frequent as well. So there is the organization there. Plus we also have a magazine now that echo's our thoughts and opinions. So why hasn't anything been done?

Surely Toyota could very easily produce a truck with an extreme offroad package or something that would have a strong foundation to work from with a Solid Front Axle, Leaf Springs all around or Coil Sprung front/Leaf Springs in the rear, with high articulation designed Springs, and e-lockers, front, and rear and Sell it with a slight lift and 33" tires. This would be an excellent foundation for anyone to work from. Sell an access cab Tacoma and a 4runner with this package. Make it a sort of stripper model as far as interior accessories are concerned with basic seats and a tough interior with a line-xed interior that can be hosed out, and the only convenience feature would be Air Conditioning. give it stock sliders both below the rockers, and mini-sliders near the bumper/where the exhaust comes out area. Have this truck come stock with an ARB front bumper with built in winch. And only offer a warranty on the Motor which would help cut costs. Line-x the rocker panels and lower portions of the truck, offer it with real hardcore tough mudflaps, and plastic or line-x'd fender flares, etc. I'm sure you guys would all understand that this would cost you some money but it would also save you some money in mods and swaps and stuff like that in the long run.

Now, one thing I want to ask. Is this whole bitching and whining and complianing similar to those rent-a garage things where a guy sets up a rent a garage with bays for do it yourselves to rent that everyone rants and raves about but no one actually goes to and then they go bankrupt a year later because no one goes? Or do people actually want to buy a brand new Tacoma with some of the options I have listed above, and they will actually wheel it brand new and build it up even more?

Part of me thinks some of you are half-assers who would rather buy an older truck and mod it up, and you're only bitching because none of the older trucks have SFA's anymore so stock is wearing thin. Lets look at the Dodge Power Wagon. Surely an awesome truck with awesome stock 4x4 options. It has a front winch built in, front and rear locking diff,s stock 33" tires, Cummins power, awesome clearance, solid front axle, etc. Would you wheel an expensive truck like that?

So which is it? What's your take.

garrett1478

i think solid axles are cool. but i think building it yourself is cooler

Keggo

Eh... I'd rather have IFS. You could talk them into throwing a Total Chaos TRD package on there... that would be sweet. Total chaos front end with TRD offroad specific coil overs... mmm...

Tacoma Dude

Most likely because serious off-roaders in need of an SA are in a very small minority. I think Toyota is mostly appealing to the weekend warriors that want to have all the comfort possible in the freeways and could do some light-moderate offroading on the weekends.

My take on the whole situation is that I'd rather roll my own. Yes, I bought a 1st gen that's got some goodies in it already but I can't say that I've taken advantage of anything other than the 4hi and 4lo. I'm just not hardcore enough to do stuff that warrants a solid axle. Granted, I don't have that much time to play anyway but my Tacoma is a more appropriate tool for my lifestyle. Comfortable while as a DD but suitable for what my capabilities are when the concrete ends.
Besides, I think it's better that you wheel to the maximum that your equipment allows you to and then you modify.

jimbo74

toyota had solid axles in their 4x4s, thats whn they started making 4x4s, 20 years ago... back in 79..... the market for trucks has deviated from then..... people no longer want the rough ride of a solid front end, they want the street soft ride of an ifs designed, refined vehicle

Erich_870

I agree w/ Jimbo. The number of people who want a solid axial so bad that they bought or built an SA rig are so small that the reality of having the rougher ride isn't evident. If you swapped rigs in the middle of the night wives/girlfriends would be more likely to complain about the ride. IMHO DD vehicles would still likely be the IFS.

Coed, you brought up another good point too. How many people actually buy a brand new vehicle with the intent to wheel it hard from day one? I'm not saying I don't wish I could. I'd have a different rig for each day of the week if I was made of cash but in reality, MOST of us either start serious modding after the warranty expires or on a used vehicle.

Ditto on "its more fun to build it yourself"

Erich

bob200587

But look at the FZJ 80s. The ride in my dad's is just as soft if not better than my 4runner with IFS. They can make a truck that has the best of both worlds. They've done it once, and it wouldn't be that bad to do it again.

EWAYota

well, how well has the Rubicon sold over the years? Targeted right at off-road enthusiasts. Toyota could do that. dont have to produce mass numbers, just limited like Jeep does with the Rubi and i'm sure they would sell pretty well. You get what you want, plus the added peace of mind with the reliabilty that Toyota brings to the table. Figure if people are buying new trucks/runners and doing a SAS and the whole nine yards, why not pay a little more for a warranty as well.

lee

^^^
what they shouldve done was not make the new fj cruiser so freakin wide and bulbous and made two versions: the version we see now with the 'offroading look' that they want to achieve... and another limited edition with SFA, factory sliders, small lift (1 or 2 inches), and front and rear lockers.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Concerning Toyota building a new SFA 4x4rig...the bottom line is that it is all about money...everything always is.

X-AWDriver

Look at the small numbers that go off road period and that number is even much smaller for the hard core roaders and building a such said hardcore vehicle just isn't something toyota is even thinking about since there's no profit there and Toyota already doesn't have problems selling their trucks as they are.

I think we should be happy that Toyota even sells a truck with a locker since that is becoming rarer and rarer along with trucks with manual trannys.

TRDOLMAN

What makes you think Toyota isn't listening? I can guaranty you that Toyota monitors all of the forums. They know what guys are doing to mod their rigs such as going SFA and pretty much know how many are doing it. I even had a Toyota engineer comment to me how "hard core" the Pirate board was.

The way I look at it is that almost every other truck manufacturing company except Toyota is losing money. I kinda figure Toyota knows what the masses want to buy and how they need to equip them to make most of the market happy. The relatively few that want a really hard core rig don't have the numbers for Toyota to consider. They will have to be content to mod their way to satisfaction.

rockota

Toyota is NOT listening to hard core offroaders. They met with my club to talk about 4Runners, they met w/ Rising Sun in Co. to talk about trucks, etc. Toyota will ************NOT*********** be building a solid axle truck in the future. The only possible exception, and I highly doubt it would happen, is their 1-ton diesels coming out in a couple of years. I'd bet a paycheck they'll still be ifs.

The Rubicon isn't part of Toyota's perceived competition. And Jeep only makes <9K of them a year. AND it's on an existing platform; Toyota would have to build a new platform, which is absolutely not possible to do economically.

Many petitions have been done, many more will follow. Toyota has no incentive to listen to a population of wheelers that represent <1% of their audience. And frankly, I don't blame them at all, regardless of how much I wish they'd produce a nice Solid axle mini or fj40.

mach4

If were talking < 1% of the toyota population, then I agree we won't see one soon.
Plus as some of the members have chimed in, the fun in putting an SAS together is doing it yourself.

Seems like toyota let's Ford and others experiment with designs first, then comes in and perfects the implementation of the design. Things such as double cabs, double cabs with 4 doors, V8s, etc.

My point is that we end up benefiting from a very methodical design evolution and thus get the high reliability we've come to be *garaunteed* from toyota.

Localmotion

Its all about making the numbers and giving the majority what they want

Flamedx4

Aside from the fact that 99% of all new truck/SUVs do not go offroad (I was one of the 1% - my new 1985 4Runner was buried in mud and had trail dings before it was 2 weeks old, but I do know that's the exception) - there is also another reason.
Liability. If they made a serious offroader, the idiots would go roll it and sue. Why do you think new trucks and SUVs are getting lower each year? Liability.

You have to hand it to Jeep - at least the TJ is offroadable as is, and easy to modify for more serious use. They haven't 'yet' knuckled under to the pressure of the litigious society we live in. They started to change with the Liberty, but it's poor sales gave them an eyeopener. It was not what their customers wanted. And they listened. Same for Daimler Chrysler, they offer all sorts of "niche vehicles" - they seem to understand that not everyone wants to drive the same vehicle. If they would just build them better....

Toyota sales are fine. Obviously then, they are building what their customers really want - people vote with their wallets. The few who want manual trans in 4Runners and more ground clearance for offroading don't constitute enough sales to matter. I asked a Toyota Factory rep why they droopped the 5speed from the Runner. He said the majority of buyers wanted an auto, and so they maximise their production by building the most wanted vehicles. That was the last time I considered buying a new Toyota....

Look at the new FJCruiser. That is NOT targeted at us enthusiast - it's targeted at the same folks who buy Xa's and Xbs. Why do I say that? Edgy styling, no improvement in ground clearance, and it is rumored that it will only come with the traction control & stability control systems - which so far haven't proven bypassable therefore rendering lift and tire size upgrading impossible. So, it's a profiler, a cruisin fer burgers car - not an offroad machine. V6/6speed is nice, but it's still not gonna get me to buy one.

Toyota has forgotten what made them in the USA. Sporty cars with real sport (all gone now) and rock-reliable trucks that could take astounding punishment, go damn near anywhere, and take you to work on Monday. They have lost touch. But they do have lots of cupholders now...

Brendan

i would personally have a hard time bringing myself to wheel a brand new truck that i have just agreed to pay $30,000+ for no matter how capable it is offroad.

bruzer1123

What about the overseas yotas? Do they still come with a SFA? So it wouldn't really be an issue of building a new platform would it (talking about the pickups)?

rockota

nope - mini's and 4runners (Prado) are ifs now.

bruzer1123

That sucks...