95ToyotaPU007

I can do the timing belt replacement in about an hour on my 3vze. Let me also say I have done it 3 times. The first time it took 3 hours cuz I wrote down everything and replaced the water pump as well. The third time it took about an hour since I already knew what to do.

CLin9383

115,000 on factory belt...will be getting changed at 120k

4RUNR

We certainly won't get into source credibility on an academic level, but lets say that:

"3.4 in non interference."
Source: Some page number is a bulletin or manual published by Toyota.

...is better than...

"3.4 is non interference."
Source: The God of all mechanics in this hemisphere I called at the local Toyota dealer yesterday.

midiwall

Right, I agree... I've been agreeing for a while now.

It was pretty clear that the Gates reference was worthless once people started putting the question to Toyota.


My issue at the moment is 4RUNR seemingly not liking the word of Toyota certified mechanics either.

MTL_4runner

....can't help you there Mark.

4RUNR

Let's be realistic, nobody knows everything there is to know about Toyota. And that includes even those that pass a certification.

Print always takes precedence over word, even if Hiroshi himself says that the 3.4 is interference.

midiwall

Wow, this is kinda' trippy... There's a psych project buried in here somewere.

Three points...

• I figure you understand that, in cases like this, the printed word has to come from a human right? i.e., a human had the knowledge before it was comitted to paper.
  
  
• And you're saying that you don't believe in the transference of the written word? i.e., a human cannot be trusted to be able to absorb the written word from a credible source? So we can just pass out books and do away with teachers.
  
  
• And what do you do when Bill Gates says that Windows is "the end-all OS for the world"; Steve Jobs says "Apple OSX is the end-all OS for the World" and then Microsoft publishes a document that says "Windows is the end-all OS for the world"?
  
  Do you then think that Windows is the end-all OS for the world?

4RUNR

That really sums it all up. Yes, I do trust someone reading sources then relaying them here; the caveat is the source should indeed be credible on the subject matter, and verifiable if need be.

BruceTS

Ok, let's settle this once and for all.... for the 1999 Toyota 3.4L engine, they are non-interference. this is from actual measurments of the valves at full open, Both the intake and exhaust extend 3.8mm beyond the mating surface of the head. The piston is cupped and is 4.6mm deep. that is a .8mm gap without adding the thickness of the head gasket.

Where did I aquire this information, easy, I measured it myself.......

midiwall

Okay, so the word alone of a number of Toyota certified mechanics (and probably a couple of Master Mechanics) isn't good enough.

So we need to dig up the training materials to be sure that a) they were taught "correctly" (defined as being taught what the training materials said, though I'll assume you agree to the first point above), b) they relayed their memory of the training materials correctly.

As well, I guess we also need to find the FSM which may/may not be the same as the training materials, and if not, then it may not have even come from the same original knowledge source of the training materials - which I'll assume that we agree was human.


This is fun.. how far do you want to take this before you agree that BeOS is the best OS even written?

MTL_4runner

I concur...esp after every credible online source said non-interference, I called 3 dealers and each said it was non-interference I tried it when doing my timing belt and didn't feel any interference (last might be debateable except in the face of all the other information).....so it must be a duck, right?

Bruce, thank you for finally ending this debate.

Jared....are you sure you don't want to retract that statement about your friend's dad?

BruceTS

Oh, I guess I should add what are my credentials? I'm a Certified Master Technician with over 25 years experience. I can't even count the number of engines that I've built/re-built, way too many to remember. The source for my measurements came directly from an engine I have in my backyard that I blew up last year.

MTL_4runner

not credible.

J/K!

X-AWDriver

So,the worst that happens is you'll need a tow and if you're already off road then it could lighten your wallet a bit plus the cost of getting the new belt installed.

4RUNR

This is indeed interesting, on a hypothetical level. Let's imagine court proceedings. Plaintiff is a guy with a trashed engine after the timing belt broke, defendant is a dealership. Let's assume the plaintiff was lead to believe by the dealership that the engine is non-interference, and no damage will incur if the timing belt breaks. Let’s also assume there is some sort of contract between the plaintiff and the dealer where the dealer is liable for maintenance, but the customer also has say in what can be put off until it breaks, with the exceptions of things that break and cause damage to other components. Imaginary scenario.

The court has already established as a fact, that the timing belt broke, and that total engine failure will incur with no fault from the plaintiff if the engine was interference by design.

Now, the defendant brings in an expert witness, a certified master technician that says the engine is non interference and the damages caused were the result of negligent actions on behalf of the plaintiff. Remember, imaginary.

The plaintiff brings up an official Toyota corporate document stating that the engine is indeed interference.

Who's evidence will have more weight?

BruceTS

Physical proof is always better than written documents, so as an "expert" witness and with the engine in the court room, a simple demonstration that the valves can't hit the piston, would be evidence enough, to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's a non-interference engine.


Back to reality, I'll personally wait til my timming belt breaks to fix it, then we'll see who's right.

BTW I did take a few photo's if you don't believe me....

MTL_4runner

Any chance you could post them so we can see?

4RUNR

Yeah, hold today's newspaper next to it too!

But, assuming that there is no physical evidence, or the problem was more complex, even doesn't have to be about engines, and it's the expert's word against the manufacturer, the manufacturer will have more credence.

To make an analogy: no matter what experts exist out there, nobody knows better than me how many beers are in my fridge. Same with the engine, no none knows better than the manufacturer.

BruceTS

Here's the shots

drifto808

i think this finally answers everyones questions. pictures speaks alot more than words. i asked my friend who is an toyota mechanic and he said non-interference motor.