(homework) Looking to replace ailing 3.0 4runner with a 3.4 runner...
02-14-2009, 07:44 AM
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(homework) Looking to replace ailing 3.0 4runner with a 3.4 runner...
hello.
i have recently come to find out that my 1994 3.0 4runner is in some sickly shape. i started to research about the 3.4L swap as an option, as i was hoping to keep my baby, as i like the 2nd gen body/styling with the tailgate and all
ultimately though, it just doesnt look to be in the cards for me to make the swap. i had aspirations of a shop doing the work for me, but his change in enthusiasm once i gave him the 3.4 swap 'homework' (thanks again to all the guys in the 3.4 swap section!) was a bit of a downer. and i just dont feel like i have the knowledge and/or resources to do the job myself (and time, since this is my main/daily driver).
now that that's said, the meat and taters for this post...
from some of the knowledge i gained during my 3.4 research, i am trying to give myself a couple of guidelines to try to follow, if possible, when trying to pick out my next 4runner, as follows:
1. 3.4L - the 3.4 seems to be the obvious choice in terms of reliabilty and power for my purposes (especially when coming from the 3.0
)
2. mechanical throttle (ie, not drive-by-wire (DBW))- i'm a bit of a KISS guy. so anything to keep things simple and reliable are always a plus in my book (which also translates to inexpensive in the long run, particularly if things go wrong)
3. preferably no sort of traction control (VSC, TRAC, etc) - this isnt necessarily a deal-breaker, especially given things such as the AndyMod, but figured i would at least try for the trifecta. this just goes back to the KISS point, especially after reading a few threads about others' causing near-miss traffic incidents
so obviously this seems to narrow my selection down to 3rd gen (96-02) 4runners. mt_goat in my 3.4 swap thread noted that tacomas didnt get DBW until 02/03, but much earlier in 4runners...so the question is how much earlier? when did 4runners start getting outfitted with DBW systems? additionally, when and which form of traction control systems were introduced? and while i'm at it, if given the circumstances, can the DBW be modded/changed over to a mechanical/cable system (i'm guessing not, because my searches didnt turn up much about it)?
thanks for your time and help, and again to the guys in the 3.4 swap section!
i have recently come to find out that my 1994 3.0 4runner is in some sickly shape. i started to research about the 3.4L swap as an option, as i was hoping to keep my baby, as i like the 2nd gen body/styling with the tailgate and all
ultimately though, it just doesnt look to be in the cards for me to make the swap. i had aspirations of a shop doing the work for me, but his change in enthusiasm once i gave him the 3.4 swap 'homework' (thanks again to all the guys in the 3.4 swap section!) was a bit of a downer. and i just dont feel like i have the knowledge and/or resources to do the job myself (and time, since this is my main/daily driver).now that that's said, the meat and taters for this post...
from some of the knowledge i gained during my 3.4 research, i am trying to give myself a couple of guidelines to try to follow, if possible, when trying to pick out my next 4runner, as follows:
1. 3.4L - the 3.4 seems to be the obvious choice in terms of reliabilty and power for my purposes (especially when coming from the 3.0
)2. mechanical throttle (ie, not drive-by-wire (DBW))- i'm a bit of a KISS guy. so anything to keep things simple and reliable are always a plus in my book (which also translates to inexpensive in the long run, particularly if things go wrong)
3. preferably no sort of traction control (VSC, TRAC, etc) - this isnt necessarily a deal-breaker, especially given things such as the AndyMod, but figured i would at least try for the trifecta. this just goes back to the KISS point, especially after reading a few threads about others' causing near-miss traffic incidents
so obviously this seems to narrow my selection down to 3rd gen (96-02) 4runners. mt_goat in my 3.4 swap thread noted that tacomas didnt get DBW until 02/03, but much earlier in 4runners...so the question is how much earlier? when did 4runners start getting outfitted with DBW systems? additionally, when and which form of traction control systems were introduced? and while i'm at it, if given the circumstances, can the DBW be modded/changed over to a mechanical/cable system (i'm guessing not, because my searches didnt turn up much about it)?
thanks for your time and help, and again to the guys in the 3.4 swap section!
02-14-2009, 08:34 AM
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...so obviously this seems to narrow my selection down to 3rd gen (96-02) 4runners. mt_goat in my 3.4 swap thread noted that tacomas didnt get DBW until 02/03, but much earlier in 4runners...so the question is how much earlier? when did 4runners start getting outfitted with DBW systems? ....
It's easy to tell when looking at the throttle body. Before DBW there are 3 cables going to the TB (counting the cruise control and auto tranny cable).
02-14-2009, 03:47 PM
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super, thanks guys...and thus begins my next quest...
while somewhat on the subject, how hard/easy would it be to 'convert' a DBW to mechanical? my searches really only turned up the post mt_goat posted earlier concerning the issue. i'm sure there's more to it, but in the case of say a 01/02 4runner, it seems like it would be as easy as finding a 'donor' throttle system from a 96-00 4runner and swapping it all out, since theyre are 5vzfe's. for instance...
recipient-
2002 3.4L 5vzfe 4runner w/ DBW
donor-
96-00 3.4L 5vzfe 4runner with mechanical throttle system:
-throttle body
-gas pedal hookups/cabling
-tranny cable
-cruise module and cables
well after making that little list and seeing it 'on paper', so-to-speak, and taking note from mt_goat about the 3 cables going to the throttle body...i'm guessing that there would be more to it than that for instance, what does the tranny cable do that goes to the throttle body? that might indicate messing with the tranny in one form or another i would imagine (a mod or a swap out)? egads, and probably an ECU might be involved as well. if those are the cases, then i guess it wouldnt be fiscally sound oh well, just thinking out loud, in case someone more tech savvy could come up with something (but i'm sure this is not a new topic and have all been options previously considered 
) it just seems too close not to be do-able!
thanks!
while somewhat on the subject, how hard/easy would it be to 'convert' a DBW to mechanical? my searches really only turned up the post mt_goat posted earlier concerning the issue. i'm sure there's more to it, but in the case of say a 01/02 4runner, it seems like it would be as easy as finding a 'donor' throttle system from a 96-00 4runner and swapping it all out, since theyre are 5vzfe's. for instance...
recipient-
2002 3.4L 5vzfe 4runner w/ DBW
donor-
96-00 3.4L 5vzfe 4runner with mechanical throttle system:
-throttle body
-gas pedal hookups/cabling
-tranny cable
-cruise module and cables
well after making that little list and seeing it 'on paper', so-to-speak, and taking note from mt_goat about the 3 cables going to the throttle body...i'm guessing that there would be more to it than that
for instance, what does the tranny cable do that goes to the throttle body? that might indicate messing with the tranny in one form or another i would imagine (a mod or a swap out)? egads, and probably an ECU might be involved as well. if those are the cases, then i guess it wouldnt be fiscally sound oh well, just thinking out loud, in case someone more tech savvy could come up with something (but i'm sure this is not a new topic and have all been options previously considered ) it just seems too close not to be do-able! thanks!
02-16-2009, 09:39 PM
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super, thanks guys...and thus begins my next quest...
while somewhat on the subject, how hard/easy would it be to 'convert' a DBW to mechanical? my searches really only turned up the post mt_goat posted earlier concerning the issue. i'm sure there's more to it, but in the case of say a 01/02 4runner, it seems like it would be as easy as finding a 'donor' throttle system from a 96-00 4runner and swapping it all out, since theyre are 5vzfe's. for instance...
recipient-
2002 3.4L 5vzfe 4runner w/ DBW
donor-
96-00 3.4L 5vzfe 4runner with mechanical throttle system:
-throttle body
-gas pedal hookups/cabling
-tranny cable
-cruise module and cables
well after making that little list and seeing it 'on paper', so-to-speak, and taking note from mt_goat about the 3 cables going to the throttle body...i'm guessing that there would be more to it than that for instance, what does the tranny cable do that goes to the throttle body? that might indicate messing with the tranny in one form or another i would imagine (a mod or a swap out)? egads, and probably an ECU might be involved as well. if those are the cases, then i guess it wouldnt be fiscally sound oh well, just thinking out loud, in case someone more tech savvy could come up with something (but i'm sure this is not a new topic and have all been options previously considered ) it just seems too close not to be do-able!
thanks!
while somewhat on the subject, how hard/easy would it be to 'convert' a DBW to mechanical? my searches really only turned up the post mt_goat posted earlier concerning the issue. i'm sure there's more to it, but in the case of say a 01/02 4runner, it seems like it would be as easy as finding a 'donor' throttle system from a 96-00 4runner and swapping it all out, since theyre are 5vzfe's. for instance...
recipient-
2002 3.4L 5vzfe 4runner w/ DBW
donor-
96-00 3.4L 5vzfe 4runner with mechanical throttle system:
-throttle body
-gas pedal hookups/cabling
-tranny cable
-cruise module and cables
well after making that little list and seeing it 'on paper', so-to-speak, and taking note from mt_goat about the 3 cables going to the throttle body...i'm guessing that there would be more to it than that
for instance, what does the tranny cable do that goes to the throttle body? that might indicate messing with the tranny in one form or another i would imagine (a mod or a swap out)? egads, and probably an ECU might be involved as well. if those are the cases, then i guess it wouldnt be fiscally sound oh well, just thinking out loud, in case someone more tech savvy could come up with something (but i'm sure this is not a new topic and have all been options previously considered ) it just seems too close not to be do-able! thanks!
02-16-2009, 09:41 PM
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oh, and def. upgrade! grant it, I loved my 90 4Runner and I love my 90 Pickup, but a 3g runner is a considerably drastic upgrade from the aforementioned vehicles.
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02-17-2009, 01:50 PM
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affirmative. yeah, while i like the body/style of the 2nd gen...i think i would prefer mechanical reliability over looks thus the requisite for myself to try and avoid as much computer controlled stuff as possible/within reason
side homework: once i get the 4runner squared away, i'll probably look into swapping out my dad's truck that i sort of inherited when he passed away a couple of years ago, for probably a tacoma. its a v8 f150, which is just too much for my purposes, size and mileage-wise. so i'm guessing about the same time frame i should stick within in order to keep with the 3.4L, non-DBW outline...which by my figurin' is 95-02? (when i was researching the possibility of the 3.4 swap, mt_goat noted that tacomas got DBW a little later than 4runners...late 02/early 03).
thanks again for everyone's time and input!
thus the requisite for myself to try and avoid as much computer controlled stuff as possible/within reason side homework: once i get the 4runner squared away, i'll probably look into swapping out my dad's truck that i sort of inherited when he passed away a couple of years ago, for probably a tacoma. its a v8 f150, which is just too much for my purposes, size and mileage-wise. so i'm guessing about the same time frame i should stick within in order to keep with the 3.4L, non-DBW outline...which by my figurin' is 95-02? (when i was researching the possibility of the 3.4 swap, mt_goat noted that tacomas got DBW a little later than 4runners...late 02/early 03).
thanks again for everyone's time and input!
02-20-2009, 02:07 PM
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alright...little more advice time...
so during my searchings, i came across two very potential candidates today.
candidate 1 -
1999 4runner SR5, 4WD, auto, ~80k miles
the carfax report looks immaculate. 1 owner, and all the service records appear to be scheduled oil changes, all from a toyota dealer. the guy at the dealer that talked to me about it, said it was clean and they had just did all new belts/filters/etc. he didn't specify timing belt, so i will have to assume that wasn't included as that would seem worth mentioning. he also thought the owner was a military officer or something to that effect. the guy even noted that he almost considered getting it for himself/wife (but didnt have a sunroof).
if i did my figurin's right on the KBB value, theyre actually listing it for more than BB value.
candidate 2-
2000 4runner, LTD, 4WD, auto, ~80k miles
the carfax report on this looks immaculate as well. 1 owner, and most of the service records appear to be scheduled oil changes from a toyota dealer. the few non-oil change service a 2wheel alignment, MAF sensor replacement, tranny flush, and 2 for "battery/charging system check". is there some sort of electrical problem with the 2000s? this one, the guy said they just did a timing belt on as well.
if i did my figurin's right on the KBB value, theyre actually listing it for a little less than BB value.
of course, the limited is about 2k more, but with that more, comes all the creature comforts of a limited...leather, sun, etc. plus the fact that the guy said the timing belt was just replaced.
luckily, it doesnt sound like i can go wrong with either of them. i hope to go by both dealers tomorrow to check out and possibly finalize anything, if not slipping by tonight to take a peek at them and get the ball rolling.
thoughts/opinions?
thanks.
so during my searchings, i came across two very potential candidates today.
candidate 1 -
1999 4runner SR5, 4WD, auto, ~80k miles
the carfax report looks immaculate. 1 owner, and all the service records appear to be scheduled oil changes, all from a toyota dealer. the guy at the dealer that talked to me about it, said it was clean and they had just did all new belts/filters/etc. he didn't specify timing belt, so i will have to assume that wasn't included as that would seem worth mentioning. he also thought the owner was a military officer or something to that effect. the guy even noted that he almost considered getting it for himself/wife (but didnt have a sunroof).
if i did my figurin's right on the KBB value, theyre actually listing it for more than BB value.
candidate 2-
2000 4runner, LTD, 4WD, auto, ~80k miles
the carfax report on this looks immaculate as well. 1 owner, and most of the service records appear to be scheduled oil changes from a toyota dealer. the few non-oil change service a 2wheel alignment, MAF sensor replacement, tranny flush, and 2 for "battery/charging system check". is there some sort of electrical problem with the 2000s? this one, the guy said they just did a timing belt on as well.
if i did my figurin's right on the KBB value, theyre actually listing it for a little less than BB value.
of course, the limited is about 2k more, but with that more, comes all the creature comforts of a limited...leather, sun, etc. plus the fact that the guy said the timing belt was just replaced.
luckily, it doesnt sound like i can go wrong with either of them. i hope to go by both dealers tomorrow to check out and possibly finalize anything, if not slipping by tonight to take a peek at them and get the ball rolling.
thoughts/opinions?
thanks.
02-21-2009, 07:22 PM
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welp, i went with the limited, which was what i was subconciously leaning towards anyhow
it turned out being the better deal overall as well. the '99 sr5 was fairly clean...typical wear and tear for a 10yo car on the interior, the exterior was pretty decent shape as well. while i was waiting for the sales guy i talked to friday to become available, another salesman brought the truck around for me to go over. he said it was getting ready to go into the shop due to a CEL, for which they were going to replace a thermal sensor (thermostat?). when the original salesman was available, he wasnt entirely sure of the history or whether the timing belt had been changed. there wasnt a sticker on the cover noting that it had, so i can only assume it hadnt. plus the guys werent terribly helpful overall either...dunno if they were just a-holes, were honda guys, or just didnt give a shat with it being a used car...it was like i was wasting their time <shrug>
the '00 limited on the other hand was for the most part spotless, and the dealer had just gotten the truck in a couple of days ago, so it wasnt officially cleaned up yet. the truck had be purchased at the same dealer and all the maint had been performed there as well, so he was able to print me off the service history that they had on record. the previous owner had traded it in for a newer 4runner he said the dealer just did the 70k mile maintenance after they got it in as well, which included timing belt, belts, filters oil change, water pump, thermostat and coolant. they were pretty firm on the price given the miles and condition, but given my preliminary KBB estimate, it was still below the BB (dealer) value. only quirks it had that were obvious was this racing stripe down the sides...of little dog stickers. theyre gonna try to get them off before i pick it up...he said they should be able to apply heat to them and they come right off. there was also a bumper sticker to the likes of 'i love my greyhound'. and a small dink/scratch at the bottom center of the lift gate...like maybe they got a little too close hitching something or the gate opening scratched against something...nothing major or an eyesore.
overall, i feel pretty confidant and satisfied...unfortunately they arent open on sunday, and it was getting late today, so i wont be able to pick it up until monday but that's a good thing, as it allows them time to get her all nice and purty, and try to get the dog stickers/racing strip off i got lucky with finding it though. i was sending my brother some carfax reports of possible candidates to see what he thought about em, and in the center of one of the reports was a block of 3 trucks saying "check out these similar autos listed in your area!", which had only been listed with carfax 3 days ago...the truck wasnt even advertised yet from the dealer, as so, the salesman was curious/surprised that i found it
thanks again for everyone's help/input!
it turned out being the better deal overall as well. the '99 sr5 was fairly clean...typical wear and tear for a 10yo car on the interior, the exterior was pretty decent shape as well. while i was waiting for the sales guy i talked to friday to become available, another salesman brought the truck around for me to go over. he said it was getting ready to go into the shop due to a CEL, for which they were going to replace a thermal sensor (thermostat?). when the original salesman was available, he wasnt entirely sure of the history or whether the timing belt had been changed. there wasnt a sticker on the cover noting that it had, so i can only assume it hadnt. plus the guys werent terribly helpful overall either...dunno if they were just a-holes, were honda guys, or just didnt give a shat with it being a used car...it was like i was wasting their time <shrug>
the '00 limited on the other hand was for the most part spotless, and the dealer had just gotten the truck in a couple of days ago, so it wasnt officially cleaned up yet. the truck had be purchased at the same dealer and all the maint had been performed there as well, so he was able to print me off the service history that they had on record. the previous owner had traded it in for a newer 4runner he said
the dealer just did the 70k mile maintenance after they got it in as well, which included timing belt, belts, filters oil change, water pump, thermostat and coolant. they were pretty firm on the price given the miles and condition, but given my preliminary KBB estimate, it was still below the BB (dealer) value. only quirks it had that were obvious was this racing stripe down the sides...of little dog stickers. theyre gonna try to get them off before i pick it up...he said they should be able to apply heat to them and they come right off. there was also a bumper sticker to the likes of 'i love my greyhound'. and a small dink/scratch at the bottom center of the lift gate...like maybe they got a little too close hitching something or the gate opening scratched against something...nothing major or an eyesore.overall, i feel pretty confidant and satisfied...unfortunately they arent open on sunday, and it was getting late today, so i wont be able to pick it up until monday
but that's a good thing, as it allows them time to get her all nice and purty, and try to get the dog stickers/racing strip off i got lucky with finding it though. i was sending my brother some carfax reports of possible candidates to see what he thought about em, and in the center of one of the reports was a block of 3 trucks saying "check out these similar autos listed in your area!", which had only been listed with carfax 3 days ago...the truck wasnt even advertised yet from the dealer, as so, the salesman was curious/surprised that i found it thanks again for everyone's help/input!
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