skjos

History:
- Bought 4runner as a certified used vehicle at 40,750 miles
- Smartened up and joined Yotatech a couple of months later
- Started paying close attention to tranny levels at about 50,000 (after I smartened up), found out I was about 1.4quarts low, and filled it to proper level
- Now I'm at 60,000, all 20,000 miles have been easy driving (no towing, no 4-wheeling, no transmission problems)

Problem:
I drained the pan in preparation for a flush, but the fluid looks like crap (doesn't smell bad, no metal particulates, just looks brown)



Possible courses of action:
1) Fill pan, drive to dealer, and ask WTF, have them do the flush and give me some sort of warranty on the tranny (my certified warranty runs out in 6 weeks)
2) Drop the pan, check the magnets, replace the filter, and slowly add new stuff to the system every oil change
3) Drop the pan, check the magnets, replace the filter, and do a manual flush

Any suggestions?
Anybody's fluid look this bad?

mt_goat

I guess I'd go with option #3 myself.

okie81

Wow. Well, the good thing is there wasn't any metal particulate in the pan and it didn't smell burnt. You mentioned you've been easy on the tranny but I've seen fluid look like that after viscosity breakdown.

I'd go with #3 course of action...you're gonna wanna get all that stuff out and a flush will do that.

skjos

Thanks for the responses, I'm going for #3.

However, I can't get the $#%@ pan off, what the heck is that sealant made out of, superglue?

The FSM says to use Tool 09032-00100 "Seal Cutter", I found the GM version of the tool online, which would work, but they want $75 for it! Any other options?

Also, which is the easiest way to disconnect the sway bar: by removing the inside brackets, unbolting the upper tie rod connection, or unbolting the lower tie rod connection?

Your help is much appreciated, and I'm taking pictures along the way to create a write-up on the whole procedure.

Thanks

ARB1977

Are those the same trannys in the tacos? If so there is no filter, its a screen. 60K miles isnt too bad...looks dirty.

mt_goat

Yeah getting the pan off is the hardest part. I use a very thin bladed paint scraper and carefully work it around the pan. You don't want to gouge the soft aluminum of the tranny gasket surface so be careful.

Potomacduck

I doubt the dealer will do much for you.

Personally, I'd have a transimmsion flush done. Even removing the pan only dumps about 1/3 of the trans fluid from the vehicle. Most of the fluid remains in the transmission and the torque converter.

A good trans flush removes ALL the old fluid and replaces it with new.

mt_goat

A very fine screen is a type of filter. Seeing how much of a PITA it is to get the pan off, I replaced this one in the pic with only 28,000 miles on it. Mainly because I was hoping not to have to take that pan off again for 100,000 miles.

mt_goat

Removing the pan is important to clean the magnets and see what kind of crap maybe settled in the bottom of the pan. Especially since he's got some nasty looking ATF coming out of it (that's not normal). Then do a flush.

GSGALLANT

You can re-use the filter screen after having cleaned it with brake cleaner, so no need to replace it. I use a thin putty knife (2" wide) to seperate the pan from the tranny. You want to use something that's wide enough (not something like a flat tip screwdriver) so that it doesn't damage the sealing surfaces. Take your time and go around the whole perimeter of the pan to "cut" the sealant. You don't want to pry too hard on one corner of the pan and end up warping it.

I'd also go with option #3 (but clean the filter instead of replacing it) You'll have to disconnect the front swaybar endlinks from the swaybar so that you can rotate the swaybar enough to get clearance to remove the pan. also, seperating the top part of the dipstick tube from the bottom part of the dipstick tube for me was the hardest part by far. It's just a slip fit with an o-ring to seal it, but it was really stubborn on my 2002 4Runner. Needed two people to do it for sure. Surprisingly, the one on my '93 4Runner was really easy to separate.

mt_goat

Why brake cleaner? Because anything that is soluble in brake cleaner is probably also soluble in a constant bath of hot ATF.

Most of the stuff I've seen stuck in the ATF filter (screen) is little metal shavings which aren't soluble in brake cleaner. You'd probably do just as good trying to back flush the filter with a water hose, but the main problem with trying to flush out the screen is 90% of the screen is covered in a metal case, you can't even see most of it so how do you know when the stuck shavings and crap are out? I remember seeing thin shavings that were 1/2 of the way through the screen. Things as small as lint from a rag can cause problems with the shift soleniods.

Maj

X2 on that. You really can't see most of the mesh and cleaning would be hit or miss/luck. And backflushing with too much pressure might cause a tear or edge to come lose that would be unseen. A cheapo aftermarket filter would be a better idea than trying to clean the old one.

skjos

I've already purchased a new filter, so I will be replacing it.

I'll give pan removal another try tonight with a thin/short putty knife that is 1.5" to 2" wide.

If disconnecting the dip-stick tube is more difficult than removing the pan, I'm in trouble. Is it best to disconnect it before dropping the pan by unbolting the upper half and pulling it out from above.... or disconnecting it from underneath by pulling it apart when removing the pan... or unbolting the upper part and pulling the whole thing out with the pan?

GSGALLANT

hmmm... metal shavings in your transmission aren't good no matter how you look at it. I'd be looking deeper for problems if I found any when I was cleaning mine out. As for brake cleaner, it cleans that metalic paste that clogs the tiny holes in the mesh. That metalic paste does not dissolve in the ATF. Brake cleaner doesn't dissolve it either, but it does clean it off. The stuff that does not get caught on the magnets (and the pan close to the magnets) stays in suspension in the ATF (and some of it builds up on the filter screen).

As for particles getting through the screen mesh, the transmission would be designed to handle any particle small enough to get through the size of the mesh. Otherwise, why even bother having a filter at all?

Finally, Toyota does not specify a new filter be installed in their overhaul manual (at least for the A340F). Generally, anytime Toyota expects a new part to be installed, they are very good at saying so in the FSM. That being said, if I had any doubt about the cleanliness or the condition of the filter when it came time to re-install, of course I would not hesitate to get a new one.

To each their own, I guess, and nobody can be faulted for putting new parts on their vehicle. IMO (and many others that I've read about), it may be a bit overkill in this case, that's all.

mt_goat

I've never seen a paste on mine, but I've only changed filters in 2 trannies and both had clear red ATF.

mt_goat

Shouldn't make much difference either way, but do remove the dip stick first. And make sure the little o-ring seal is there and ok. Wet it a little before going back together.

GSGALLANT

x2. Don't forget the dipstick... otherwise you could bend it pretty bad.

I think that everytime I've done a tranny flush, I've left the upper half of the dipstick tube connected, and just removed the bottom part with the pan. If I'm not mistaken, when I did my friend's flush, his was really stuck also, and we tried disconnecting and removing the top section, but it was too hard to get leverage. I'm not sure if you could remove it all in one piece. Might depend how high you're able to jack the truck up off the ground, because you can't really bend that tube. I can't remember how much clearance there is around there to pull it out.

Just be careful and patient if it gives you trouble. Don't just start yanking on the pan... you don't want to break the joint where the tube mates to the pan. Grab the tube as close to the o-ring joint as you can and pull/twist it out with firm even tension.

You haven't asked, but for putting the pan back on, the best gasket maker I've found is "the Right Stuff" by Permatex. I've never had a joint leak using that stuff, and you don't have to wait for it to harden before re-filling your transmission. I use it anytime I need FIPG anywhere on my car. It's compatible with all the fluids in your truck (except for gasoline, of course).

GSGALLANT

Paste might be the wrong word. I meant the same dark gray stuff that you have to clean off the magnets in the pan. It reminds me of a metalic paste... looks sort of like the stuff that collects on a diff drain plug magnet, but not quite as thick, I guess.

skjos

I hit the dollar store at lunch and bought putty knives of various widths, I will probably need to cut most of the handle off to get them to fit straight into the seal area.

I was also thinking of bending one in my vise to make it "L" shaped (similar to the toyota tool), and see how that works.

I've already purchased the Toyota FIPG so I will be using it, but I've heard good things about the permatex stuff.

Adam F

Dude, you have a warranty, why not use it?

Refill it, drive it a good while, and bring it back to the dealership and have them flush it.