bretskie27

Guys help please...Ok.. Ill admit it I think that i jumped a few years in skill here and im over my head...Im having trouble with the timing....I took the advice of a mechanic friend of mine and did the following.

1. I needed to replace the water pump and i new that i was going to replace the timing belt. Therefore i just cut the belt.

2. Installed the water pump and thermostat.

3. My friend then told me that i needed to put the harmonic balancer bolt back in the crank and turn it clockwise then slowly turn the right hand camshaft pulley until the timing marks are aligned. However he told me that if i feel any resistance to back off the crank a little.

4. My problem is that i can not and im hesitant to move the camshaft pullies.


How can I make sure that the pully's are in time.... Any suggestions on my next step im pretty sure i havent fkd up anything bc i havent started the engine but im stumped...I tried his way before reading the 4x4wire write up and now im lost...



Im in over my head but im not afraid to admit it....hahah
\
thanks
Bret

Yukon

I have no idea, but tell us, what kind of engine

bretskie27

5vzfe....haha im so screwed.....guess i was a little to excited seemedx to easy when he was explaining and it prob is but im confused ha

Ironmike4x4

First off, don't panic and give yourself a pat on the back. You're at least taking the initiative to learn to do it yourself. Get a haynes manual or even better an FSM. If you know of someone that is very mechanically inclined make it worth their time and offer to pay them for helping you and teaching you to finish the job up. I'd have to be there to see what's going on and guide you through it instead of typing it out.

yotaman85

you'll get it man, don't trip, just relax and take in the advice... good luck.

Yukon

These should help you.. Maybe? I think this is what you need.

bretskie27

Thanks for the encouragement...haha....if it was a lawnmower engine i would be fine..I have the FSM and it makes sense...as ling as i dont start the engine im golden right....

It makes it seem easy this way....on the fsm but we all know what happened the last time I thought it would be easy hahah...

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

pull the spark plugs... it will help you get things lined up. Fyi.. next time you do a timing belt/ chain. line up the marks before you start removing stuff and using a sharpie or paint pen.. make marks on your old belt that you can transfer over to the new belt for ... just in case...

bretskie27

vital 22re...If i pull the plugs the compression will go away but will i be able to turn the camshaft pullies by themselves or do i have to still move the crank?

stir_fry_boy

It is important to also learn from your experiences. Good job for tackling this by yourself. One thing that helps is the set the timing to cyl #1 TDC before you take the belt off, that way you shouldn't have to move any cams to get them lined up. They are a bugger to line up exactly with the belt off due to compression, but in TDC they should stay put. Removing the spark plugs helps. Everything should be all lined up when you take the old belt off in cyl #1 TDC. Good thing the 5VZ is a non-interference motor otherwise by moving the cams without moving the crank, or visa-versa, (which is what you have to do) you can definitely bend valves. Once the belt is off, take the water pump out, put a new one in (don't use RTV), compress the timing belt tensioner in a vise, and once you have everything lined up, put the new belt on. It helps to put it on in the right pulley order too. I am not sure of the pulley order. I know for Honda 3.5 L, but not the 5VZ Toyota. You should be able to acquire an FSM for free at Ncttora.com that will explain everything.

If I were you I would do the following to set your timing:
1) Remove the spark plugs
2) Turn the crank by hand with the harmonic balancer on the crank (to make it easier to turn) to cyl #1 TDC.
3) Turn each cam to line up with the marks on the head so that the cams will be timed with the crank to cyl #1 TDC

You can do your water pump before or after you do this.

bretskie27

Thanks for the advice....What was worrying me was the fact that my friend told me that with the belt off they should spin easily...The problem is that they dont obviously bc of the compression.. HE said that if you felt any resistance to stop...but from what you are saying there will be bc the plugs are in...so if i take out the plugs and set cyl 1 to TDC i should be able to move the pully's? If i feel resistance should I keep going....and that tensioner is a pain in the ass to get off...can i just lower it to a few threads on the bolt and then when the belt is on just tighten it back up or do i have to remove it? to bad that snap on tool is so damn expensive

stir_fry_boy

Yes the compression will go away, but it still will be tough to line up. You will have to move the crank and both cams so that all 3 pulleys will be lined up. If you have access to a cam holding tool, I would use one so you have some leverage. As far as the crank pulley, put on the harmonic balancer, you don't need to put the bolt in and you should be able to turn it with your hands to line it up.

stir_fry_boy

You are going to feel resistance upon moving any of the 3 pulleys even with the spark plugs out, this is normal. YES, You should keep going if there is resistance because you are working with a non-interference motor. If you were working on a Honda, then the answer would be no because those are interference motors. I have done the same thing you are doing on the Honda 3.5L V6 and even with the spark plugs in, me and my friend were able to turn everything (pulley by pulley and all 3 pulleys with the timing belt on) with a lot of muscle.

Once you get all 3 pulleys to TDC for the #1 CYL, then put on the belt, timing belt tensioner, harmonic balancer and the harmonic balancer bolt (leave the cover off). Turn the crank with your breaker bar on the 19 MM (I think) harmonic balancer bolt about 5-6 full turns of the CAMS. Make sure everything is lined up, undo the harmonic balancer bolt and harmonic balancer, put on the covers and reinstall everything. Make sure all the marks on both cams and the crank are lined up exactly.

As far as the tensioner, my understanding is that you have to remove it, put it in a vise to compress it, put a hex key though it to hold it, and then put it on. I don't think you can loosen it enough to get the timing belt on / off without taking it completely out. The snap-on tool is used so that you don't have to remove the A/C compressor AND to hold the tensioner in place. I think you can find it for $45. Here in SLC there is a tool place called Lorin Peck and they would carry something like that but alot cheaper than $45. In my mind, the money you are saving is well worth getting the tool even if you decide to sell it on e-bay after you are done. Here is the procedure without buying the tool: http://ncttora.com/fsm/1996/SIL/tech...imbel/inst.pdf Look on page 2, this also includes the correct pulley order for the timing belt installation.

You need to check for play in the idler pulleys in there (2). Sometimes those can go bad and they are around $100 each. Some people just replace them while they are in there, other people let them go if they are good. When I had mine done at the dealer, they said they rarely replace them on the first timing belt but the 2nd they definitely see them getting replaced more often.

mt_goat

Here's the link for that: http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/index.html

stir_fry_boy

Thanks Dale, I thought that by typing "ncttora.com" it would automatically make it a link but it didn't.

FogRunner

And most importantly, which cannot be over emphasized is when putting things back together to torque the main bolt that holds the harmonic balancer on to 215 ft lbs. If you can't do it yourself get someone to help you. If you don't torque it down property the bolt and harmonic balancer will work its way loose and DESTROY the end of crankshaft.

Its almost impossible to hold the harmonic balancer without a special tool either bought or home built. As tempting as it make look don't put a chain strap around the balancer or it will tear up the belt grooves. You can buy the Schley tool which works pretty good http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1...damper_pu.html.

You don't say where your at but if your near Houston,Tx I could look and see if I could find the Schely I bought last year.

On a side note congratulations on taking the initiative to do the work on your vehicle rather throw money at it and let other people do it.


FOG

bretskie27

I live in Binghamton NY..so im a long way away ha....yeha im a tinkerer i love challenging myself and learning things. Usually have 4 projects going on at the same time.

Its funny you mention the tourqe issues. That is actually how I got the truck...its a 98 4 runner in mint condition well except for 180k the body and interior are mint. I bought the truck for 400$ cash bc my coworker had a stealership use an impact wrench on the harmonic balancer bolt.

The problem is that it couldnt be proven but its obvious that it was what happened. I used a scope and there is enough threads to hold so all i have to do is put some red lock tite on it and tourque it down and i have a $400 4runner.

The last 4 threads on the crankshaft were gummed up so they didnt feel safe putting th bot back in and gave him a 4000k quote to tear the engine out and repair the crank..he didnt what to do that or tear it apart himself so i voulnteered

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

you'll fell the resistance on the camshafts because you're not fight compression there, but rather the valve springs.

bretskie27

awsome guys.;...I put the belt on and took the tensioner out....keyed it and put it back in....however the marks are off on the top camshafts by i say 1/16'' if not less is this a problem i took the thing off 4 times and tried and even tried zip ties to hold the cams but when i put in the tensioner and tighten the bolts the idler pulley extends even with out the pin pulled and moves the cams off by a 16th. I even tried to compensate by turning the pullies ahead a 1/4'' and still not working....do you think that it would mess up the motor with a 16th....still havent started it yet

stir_fry_boy

Are you doing it according to the FSM? It should be lined up exactly after turning the crank 5-6 times.