rimpainter.com

I just purchased a "donor" 4Runner on Saturday with a 2nd gen TRD supercharger on it (and boost guage). I bought it to "steal" the SC'r off it and put it on mine. The guy had all the major (stock) parts in the original SC'r box; intake mainifold, hoses, bolts...pretty much everything.

So far, the parts I think I need are:

Intake manifold gasket
Intake manifold gasket 2 (where it sandwiches together)
TB gasket (I could reuse the metal one even though they say not to)
Drive belt (Crank to ALT)

Can you guys think of anything else to add to the list?

Once the SC'r is off, it is getting sent out to Magnuson for an overhaul. I am pretty psyched about this swap, so any help is appreciated!

MTL_4runner

Nice one!

You gonna take some pics of the install?

Thread for the part numbers:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/oh-no-not-another-s-c-question-52998/

This thread might come in handy for the nose drive:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...350#post303350

rimpainter.com

Sure, I could do that. To be honest, it really does not look that hard. I just want to make sure that both rigs are done right. This step should be easy, it's my 96 that I am more worried about. I want to do that right, which means a laundry list of URD parts - I think.

I am actually thinking about putting a 4 psi custom pulley on it to minimize the HG/LR ping. In addition to the pulley, I am thinking 2-step colder plugs, Walbro 190 FP, and a new 02 sensor to start. Or I could just get the URD kit and run the (6?) psi stock pulley, but that is $$.

Any thoughts on running a 4 psi pulley? Sounds dumb, but I will still have more power than what I have now, and I should be able to avoid the pinging problem - maybe.

rimpainter.com

I was looking for that, thanks Jamie. I am not sure if I want to tackle that or not. What if I screw up? That's what I keep saying to myself. Hmmm...

AgRunner06

You could just go with the stock PSI pulley and buy a FTC. It will reduce the timing at low rpms so there won't be any ping.

FilthyRich

the urd kit is the most complete, well thought out system period. I added the wideband o2 sensor. this allows for more ability to tune your s/c. you won't be disappointed, except maybe your wallet.
Oh well, life is short and it's just too much fun. Drop Gaadget a line and he WILL set you straight. That man is a TRUE WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE AND A HELL OF A NICE GUY. DO IT

midiwall

Christian, you're gonna LOVE IT! I'm really happy for you man!

Okay, this is how I went through the options...

I could get control of the ping/lean issue with the stock pump and injectors, but that was with the SMT-5 (the model is now SMT-7) pretty well cranked up in terms of fuel. Using it to back off of the timing to get control of ping wasn't an issue.

Depending on which camp you listen to, you'll get a varying number as to what's "okay" in terms of how far to crank out the injector duty cycle (when you "add" fuel using one of the piggybacks, you're not increasing the flow _rate_ through the injector, you're increasing the amount of time that the injector is "on" during the intake cycle. That time is called the "duty cycle").

To get enough fuel in there for the HRPM Lean, you'll be pushing the stock injectors at around 90%, that's a lot (in both camps!) and not real healthy. Now, part of this requirement is because of the pressure in the fuel system - the stock injectors can take more pressure than the stock pump can put out. So, my first stop was to install the Walbro 190, and as such I was able to drop the duty cycle down below 80% with the stock injectors. That was fine for me, and I have plenty of "head room" with this setup so that I can actually run rich up on the top end.

So, I'm running stock injectors for right now (though I have 305's sitting here).

The other thing is ping... Man, I'll tell ya'... A lot of folks drop in colder plugs, colder thermostat, lower boost, etc. but when it comes down to it, the _right_ way to handle this is to use a piggyback (FTC or SMT) and retard the timing. That saves a LOT of messing around with plug temps and such.

I _do_ have 1-step colder Denso's in here, but in hindsight, I don't think I need 'em. If you do want to try 'em, look up this guy on eBay, he's selling them for less than Gadget:

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQs...arkplugssource

Just look for a set of six Denso IK20's.. I paid $45.


Okay, tuning. Here's another bag-o-fun.

I have an Innovate Motorsports wideband sensor/meter (the "LM-1" that Gagdet sells, along with the LMA-2 RPM adapter). I think it's a REALLLLLLYYYYYY expensive device that isn't really needed... here's why...

In closed loop (cruising around town) the ECU will _always_ do what it has to in terms of massaging the fuel delivery to get the engine to run at a 14.7:1 A/FR. It does this by reading values from your front O2 sensor. So, _over time_ the wideband will ALWAYS show you appx 14.7:1. Now, as you sit and tweak your FTC-1 or SMT-7, then YES, you can certainly get the engine to run rich or lean in closed loop - but only for the length of time that it takes the ECU to settle into 14.7. The bad/good news is that could take 20 seconds, or a few minutes depending on conditions. So the tuning you do during closed loop is all about helping the ECU get to 14.7 as quick as possible.

The real good news is that you can do this same _sort_ of thing with a decent OBDII reader - like the $90 one from OBDDiagnostics. This is because a decent OBDII reader will show you the Long Term & Short Term fuel trim numbers, which are the values that the ECU is using to figure out fuel delivery. All you do is keep an eye on the LTFT number and adjust the "map" in the FTC/SMT to cause that number to drift to zero. (e.g., if the LTFT number was -5, then you might set a "value in the map" of the FTC/SMT to -1). In many ways, that's just as easy as watching the number on a $300 wideband unit.

The other side of the ECU is open loop, or our friend Mr. Wide Open Throttle. This gets a bit trickier.

In open loop, the ECU doesn't use the O2 sensor for fuel math - things are happening too fast for it to make a difference, and plus, it's just figuring that it's gonna dump fuel at a given rate and see what the engine will take.

It's in THIS mode, that an A/FR meter can really help - but (imo) it doesn't have to be a $300 wideband. In terms of tuning, the information that I got out of a Halmeter that I picked up used for $70 is just as valid as what I'm seeing on the wideband. This isn't to say that it's as _accurate_ (the Halmeter is a sliding LED bargraph where the LM-1 is giving you numbers to 1/100th of a percent), but the tuning resolution of the FTC/SMT is VERY coarse - about 2% in terms of A/F ratios - so you don't NEED the accuracy!

Now, one more thing to keep in mind... You may be running a wideband to get some insanely accurate numbers for A/FR, but the ECU is still using the stock O2 sensor to do it's math. That's "okay" in the sense that you're tuning "relative" to the stock O2 sensor, but there's another level of coarseness involved here.


There's an upside to the LM-1, and frankly, in my case it's its redeeming quality. Innovate makes (and URD sells) a couple of external boxes which will let you log multiple "channels" of information on the box. You log up to 6 channels of stuff at once, like RPM, fuel pressure, A/FR, EGT, coolant temp, ambient air temp - just about anything you can think of. The two boxes differ in what they offer without any additional external sensors. There's a$100 box (the LMA-2) which takes an RPM input (like from the tach) and gives you an additional 4 channels to play with (the 6th channel is always A/FR). The LMA-3 (or, "AuxBox") is a $250 box that has X/Y accelerometers built-in, a pressure cup, and RPM input. You can override any of the on-board stuff with your own sensors if you wish.

For me, the redemption of buying the LM-1 came from buying the $100 LMA-2 as well. I can now log a number of things (I'll be watching A/FR, RPM, EGT and MAF), download the info to a laptop and use Innovate's _excellent_ LogWorks program to analyze how the truck is doing after it's done it. I can then take this chart info back to the programming software for the SMT-5 and update places in the fuel and timing maps to tweak the engine into oblivion.


Okay, my bottom line...

Get the Walbro 190, get an FTC-1 or SMT-7 and get a simple A/FR meter.

You'll be set. And if you end up wanting "more", then you'll still be able to use everything that you've already bought.

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KING

Finally, I see.

Good choice, Christian.

Looking forward to the progress.

rimpainter.com

Wow Mark, that response was simply, well, informative! THANKS MAN!

I was looking for a parts list just like the one you left. I have a laptop (if that matters) for tuning, but I will definitely need some assistance. The good news is that I have some time to build my "must have" list while I send the SC'r out for service. I am thinking it needs to go out to Magnuson to be inspected and "fixed" by the pros. If I cracked it open, I would have no idea what I was looking for besides the obvious (scored races or bearings).

Anyway, thanks again for all that info. That response should go down in Yotatech history.

rimpainter.com

I will keep you posted, thanks Jesus.

yoda-g2

If you are a do-it-yourselfer, here is a thread I wrote the tells about rebuilding the nose drive yourself for about $30 bucks, which is all Magnuson does on their over hauls.

Clicky


Enjoy! You are going to love the life of boost!

midiwall

peh... you know me Christian, when I get going it's hard to get me to stop!

Feel free to drop a line, or drop back into this thread when you get to the point of starting to buy the pieces. I have some, umm, opinions , on the FTC-1 vs the SMT-7.

The laptop will come in handy.