ECT mod ... could this be a problem?
03-18-2003, 08:34 AM
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ECT mod ... could this be a problem?
This was posted by an auto mechanic on an email list I belong to. It deals with the engine thinking the temp sensor is reporting colder than reality (in this case a bad plug, but the ECT mod does the same thing essentially). It's definitely interesting to read through...
So what say the gurus? Could this cause problems with our engines?
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Well lets make an example here. 00 Ford Focus blown motor. Wow an internal problem with motor, but why? Plugged Exhaust, easy enough. NOT The converter shot particles from the converter down the exhaust and plugged the exhaust causing a blown motor. But why? Inputs and outputs.
Why did converter go bad. Well lets see vehicle was running rich. Ok why? O2 sensor telling computer that system is lean, so computer makes a change with Long Fuel Trim to add more fuel to the system. Injectors adding fuel by widing the pulse width of the on off time of injector. Why is system running lean to begin with? Ahh that was because the coolant temp sensor was reporting the wrong engine temp. The temp sensor was telling the computer that It was cold there for adding more fuel to system. But in the process it destroyed the o2 sensor which was giving a faulty reading. So as of now we have a blown motor, bad exhaust, bad converter, bad o2 sensor, and possible bad temp sensor. But all that doesnt fix the problem. The real problem was the internal computer pin from the temp sensor was bad internally in the computer which was made in Mexico or Japan.. Who also make the systems for foreign vehicles too.
So what say the gurus? Could this cause problems with our engines?
-------------------------------
Well lets make an example here. 00 Ford Focus blown motor. Wow an internal problem with motor, but why? Plugged Exhaust, easy enough. NOT The converter shot particles from the converter down the exhaust and plugged the exhaust causing a blown motor. But why? Inputs and outputs.
Why did converter go bad. Well lets see vehicle was running rich. Ok why? O2 sensor telling computer that system is lean, so computer makes a change with Long Fuel Trim to add more fuel to the system. Injectors adding fuel by widing the pulse width of the on off time of injector. Why is system running lean to begin with? Ahh that was because the coolant temp sensor was reporting the wrong engine temp. The temp sensor was telling the computer that It was cold there for adding more fuel to system. But in the process it destroyed the o2 sensor which was giving a faulty reading. So as of now we have a blown motor, bad exhaust, bad converter, bad o2 sensor, and possible bad temp sensor. But all that doesnt fix the problem. The real problem was the internal computer pin from the temp sensor was bad internally in the computer which was made in Mexico or Japan.. Who also make the systems for foreign vehicles too.
03-18-2003, 09:06 AM
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Seeing as how the Stock WOT maps are Pig-Rich at <11.76-1 and the ECT mod makes the engine nowhere near that rich during normal driving, I don't see a problem.
I think the person who owned the vehicle in that story was oblivious to regular engine maintenance or normal engine behavior. How could they not notice how poorly their engine ran with a clogged Cat? How many Ford Focus owners do you think are their own mechanics.
The ECT mod would be most effective on a boosted engine or one that has a free-flowing intake and exhaust or one that has added headers. That engine is going to be moving more air than a stock motor and can probably use a bit more fuel without running too rich.
This was the intention of the ECT mod article.
My .02
Dr .Z
I think the person who owned the vehicle in that story was oblivious to regular engine maintenance or normal engine behavior. How could they not notice how poorly their engine ran with a clogged Cat? How many Ford Focus owners do you think are their own mechanics.
The ECT mod would be most effective on a boosted engine or one that has a free-flowing intake and exhaust or one that has added headers. That engine is going to be moving more air than a stock motor and can probably use a bit more fuel without running too rich.
This was the intention of the ECT mod article.
My .02
Dr .Z
03-18-2003, 09:40 AM
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Cool, just throwing it out there... We have over a foot of snow here from last night (another couple on the way) and I am bored as ˟˟˟˟˟ right now... 'Bout all I can do is post on a board. 
03-18-2003, 09:51 AM
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Dude, you have a 4Runner AND a Locker! With a foot of snow on the ground, why are you sitting inside??? Get out there and do some cookies! Then take pictures after you bury your truck sideways in snow bank! 
Dr. Z
Dr. Z
03-18-2003, 10:11 AM
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Re: ECT mod and carbon build-up?
Originally posted by <96 Runner>
I still wonder what the internal carbon build-up looks like after the addition of the ECT mod and more fuel throughout the RPM range. :confused:
I still wonder what the internal carbon build-up looks like after the addition of the ECT mod and more fuel throughout the RPM range. :confused:
I installed the HKS head gasket for two reasons:
1. The 7MGTE engines wre notorius for blown factory head gaskets. (Sound familiar?)
2. I was going to be running about 18lbs of boost (bigger turbo) and the stock head gasket doesn't hold up that kind of abuse. It doesn't hold up to the factory 7lbs of boost for that matter.
With the factory T-Stat on the 5VZ-FE, which keeps these engines running fairly hot (around 190* in the Winter), I don't think carbon build up is going to be a problem. If you run the Electric Fan mod, the engine runs about 10* warmer than that, which further reduces the chance for carbon deposits.
My .02
Dr. Z
03-18-2003, 10:38 AM
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Do you think I would see any significant benefits to adding the lower temp thermostat? Since I am running about 200* right now(according to your data), wouldnt it drop me down to the 170* range? That would be a good thing right? I would now essentially run richer...
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03-18-2003, 11:03 AM
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Well, when I ran the TRD Thermo before doing the DeckPlate and ISR mods, I saw a reduction in Fuel Economy. But it was nice power boost. When running it after the addition of the DeckPlate and ISR Mods, there was no change in Fuel Economy and the power boost was still there. I did all of this while still running the factory clutch fan. With the TRD Thermo and the factory fan, the engine temp was around 174*, in the Winter.
I have since installed the FLX-210, but I went back to the stock t-stat at the same time. I wanted to see the effects of the fan on it's own. I have not ran the TRD Thermo in combination with the FLX-210. I'd be willing to wager that the engine temp would be around 185* or so (in the Winter) and that's prolly warm enough not to cause a fuel economy loss or cause carbon deposits to form. It'd be warmer in the Summer. If you want to wait a few days for some data from me about this, I can install the TRD Thermo tomorrow and grab some info for you. I am interested in knowing myself anyway.
By the way, these numbers are only valid on a NA engine. The TRD S/C equiped engines tend to run at least 10* warmer from what I have seen.
Peace!
Dr. Z
I have since installed the FLX-210, but I went back to the stock t-stat at the same time. I wanted to see the effects of the fan on it's own. I have not ran the TRD Thermo in combination with the FLX-210. I'd be willing to wager that the engine temp would be around 185* or so (in the Winter) and that's prolly warm enough not to cause a fuel economy loss or cause carbon deposits to form. It'd be warmer in the Summer. If you want to wait a few days for some data from me about this, I can install the TRD Thermo tomorrow and grab some info for you. I am interested in knowing myself anyway.
By the way, these numbers are only valid on a NA engine. The TRD S/C equiped engines tend to run at least 10* warmer from what I have seen.
Peace!
Dr. Z
03-18-2003, 11:13 AM
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That would be great, data is a good thing! I also wonder how much bearing the FLX210 thermo sensor has on temp. For example, if you set it above or below "norm" how much hotter or cooler does the engine temp get?
Basically my question is: How much influence does that little thermoswitch have anyway?
Thanks for the research Dr. Z. Keep us posted!
Basically my question is: How much influence does that little thermoswitch have anyway?
Thanks for the research Dr. Z. Keep us posted!
03-18-2003, 11:29 AM
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Basically my question is: How much influence does that little thermoswitch have anyway?
It's not as efficient at cooling the engine as the clutch fan is. You give up some cooling system efficiency in exchange for some performance. Which is why FAL recommends you keep the clutch fan if you are going to do a LOT of heavy towing. The t-stat switch will have more of an effect if you lower it from "Norm" and less if you raise it. If you want maximum cooling, meaning that the fan runs more often, lower the setting. I have mine set to the "Norm" setting and the fan RARELY turns on. It mostly comes on if I've been idling for about 10 minutes after the engine has reached full operating temperature. If I'm driving around, it almost never comes on, even in traffic as long as I'm moving. It comes on during a lot of stop-n-go stuff, which is good. It should.
I'll let you know how it goes with the TRD thermo.
Dr. Z
03-18-2003, 11:45 AM
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I have the TRD t-stat with s/c and flx-210b fans. I had to run my fans alittle below the "norm" setting otherwise I was running too warm and the fans didn't turn on quick enough. My 500 ohm pot should be here today (thanks for the link Z-man)and if I find time I'll be doing the ECT mod this weekend. I'll also see how the elec fans handle the AZ summer.
I'm still flipping coins on my headers. If I go with the TRD headers with the jet-hot and install versus the Downey with ceramic and install....the TRD set-up goes about $550 more than the Downey complete. Hmmmmm...not sure if I want to spend that much more.....as the story continues....
I'm still flipping coins on my headers. If I go with the TRD headers with the jet-hot and install versus the Downey with ceramic and install....the TRD set-up goes about $550 more than the Downey complete. Hmmmmm...not sure if I want to spend that much more.....as the story continues....
03-18-2003, 12:12 PM
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I actually gave up trying to get it to NOT leak in the bottom hose. So mine is inserted thru the Rad Fins near the bottom, just slightly off-center towards the driver's side.
Dr. Z
Dr. Z
03-18-2003, 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Dr. Zhivago
I actually gave up trying to get it to NOT leak in the bottom hose. So mine is inserted thru the Rad Fins near the bottom, just slightly off-center towards the driver's side.
Dr. Z
I actually gave up trying to get it to NOT leak in the bottom hose. So mine is inserted thru the Rad Fins near the bottom, just slightly off-center towards the driver's side.
Dr. Z
03-18-2003, 12:18 PM
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Mine hasn't leaked at all. I used 2 clamps on the bottom hose. One on either side of the rubber sensor holder that is on the lower rad outlet tube. It appears to work well....so far
03-18-2003, 01:45 PM
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Hmmmm. Well, maybe I'll give it another go. I did try two hose clamps with no success, but one of them was the stock clamp along with a worm-gear type. I ruined one worm-gear driven one trying to get it to tighten securely, so I gave up.
But it does turns on when it's supposed to. My temp gauge doesn't read any higher than normal. I made sure of that.
Dr. Z
But it does turns on when it's supposed to. My temp gauge doesn't read any higher than normal. I made sure of that.
Dr. Z
03-19-2003, 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by Dr. Zhivago
I actually gave up trying to get it to NOT leak in the bottom hose. So mine is inserted thru the Rad Fins near the bottom, just slightly off-center towards the driver's side.
I actually gave up trying to get it to NOT leak in the bottom hose. So mine is inserted thru the Rad Fins near the bottom, just slightly off-center towards the driver's side.
03-20-2003, 05:09 AM
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2 screw type hose clamps will solve the leak problem.
I am also coming up with a way of making the control box waterproof since it is kind of "low" in the engine compartment.
I am also coming up with a way of making the control box waterproof since it is kind of "low" in the engine compartment.
