Ilovemountains

I know this is not the correct place for this but I need some advice and or help! I bid on an exhaust system the other night, I was out bid a few minutes later and thought to myself, oh well. I was only willing to pay what I bid so I didn’t bid more. I went ahead and closed out of that seller’s auction and moved onto another auction with a buy it now option and bought an exhaust system! The problem is, the seller cancelled the bid that the person placed that out bid me, his reason was they had under 5 feedbacks, even though the 4 that they had were recent and all outstanding. He is now holding me responsible for his item, he told me that he will not email the other bidders that this is my responsibility, he told me that he is going to file for a non paying bidder claim through Ebay which suspends your account and leave me negative feedback. I have like 200 positive feedbacks for selling and buying on Ebay over the last few years. I know how it works, this is not my fault, I was out bid and closed the auction! Let me know what you all think, this is absurd that he would do this. I mean if you go to an estate auction and bid $10 on an item and some one out bids you with a bid of $15 so you get up and leave "closing the auction" you were out bid. Now that person goes to pay and finds out they don’t have the cash on them. You are not responsible for buying that item at the $10 you bid because you were out bid; Ebay is the same way I think, right? I’m very pissed about this, the seller is acting like an ass.... Please let me know what you think.. I filed a claim with Ebay but they sent me an email stating that once an auction closes a bid is binding, but I was out bid, I don’t think they read my email. This is enough to ruin some ones afternoon!

shazaam

legaly your responsible .. personally . I would tell him to shove it, let him leave his negatie feedback, your account will not be suspended, unless your a repeat fender. Go enjoy your new exhuast.

Ilovemountains

How can that be if I was out bid, I got the you have been out bid screen and thought oh well, so I bought some thing else! I cant help that I was out bid! This sucks, I should not be held responsible, he should be for cancelling the true high bidders bid, not me! I got out bid damn it!!!!!!!

4RUNR

Did you place the bid? Yes.
Did you cancel your bid? No.
Were you the highest bidder when the auction closed? Yes.

What is not clear here?

Ilovemountains

What is not clear is, I was out bid and notified to place another bid which I wasnt willing to do, there for since I was no longer the WINNING or HIGH bidder I moved on there for making me the losing bidder in my book. I was out bid, fair and square. Ok, you go to an auto auction and see a SWEET 1 owner 1985 4runner, clean looks better than new. You place your bid of $10,000. You get out bid by a guy that bid $15,000. You say,man congrats, I cant pay $15,001 for that truck. He goes to pay the $15,000 and realises that he doesnt have the funds, or cant get them. MEANWHILE you bid on and won a sweet 1984 4x4 truck with 39,000 miles and new tires. Now the auction house comes up to you and says, well the guy that bid $15,000 cant come up with the cash, now your responsible because you were the next highest bidder, but you were out bid, fair and square and moved on to buy another rig. HOW IS THIS YOUR PROBLEM? This makes NO SENSE. Im not raising my voice, Im just pissed about the entire ordeal. He emailed me and told me that I need to pay for the item, or send him $10 to cover his ebay fees or I need to try and sell his item for him. This is BS, he cancelled the high bidders bid, not me. In my opinion this should call off all bids, I mean if you get out bid thats it, you got out bid its out of your hands...

rowdy4runnin

i dont think you are responsible if you were officially "outbid". legally, im not at all positive on this one but i would NOT pay for the item unless it is a really low price and a profit could be made for me by selling it after recieving it. if i were you i would say screw this guy. if anything comes up about suspension, call ebay and talk to someone. anyways, whats one bad feedback outta 200? your right on this one.

grams72

If he does make you buy the item, Leave negative feedback for him. It will hurt him more that I will hurt you.

Glenn

That sounds bogus. Don't pay the guy. The seller must take risks in selling their items. It isn't your fault that the person that outbid you couldn't pay what they bid. A negative feedback out of 200+ would never stop me from buying from you.

Neo541

When you look at the closed auction, does it show you as the winner?

If not, not only can he not make you purchase it, I don't think he CAN leave negative feedback for you.

If it does, I think you're screwed.

4RUNR

That is not what happened. You are sitting in an auction room, raise your hand and say $15,000. Then another guy raises his hand and says $15,001, as soon as he does he drops dead. Your hand it still up in the air and the hammer strikes.

You did not withdraw your bid before the auction closed.

Glenn

Can you post a link to the auction?

dstrick32

This is a method they use to jack the bids up. They will have someone or even themselves, registered under another name to keep bidding till you quit and then they will cancel the top bid. If it was offical e-bay would have e-mailed you a message telling you that the bid had been dropped and ask if you were still willing to allow your bid to stand and given the choice of taking it or not!! I just went through the same crap!!

dstrick32

This is the e-mail I recieved:

Second Chance Offer -- Buy The Item You Recently Bid On


Dear
Good news! The following eBay item on which you placed a bid for US $0.00 on Nov-24-04 11:02:19 PST is now available for purchase:


Toyota 3.0L V6 3000 truck engine 4runner std -
Your Price : US $
Offer end date : Nov-25-04 14:03:37 PST

Don't let this get away!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second Chance Offer

The seller, rabbi_jackhazzard is making this Second Chance Offer because the high bidder was either unable to complete the transaction or the seller has a duplicate item for sale.

The selling of this item through Second Chance Offer is in compliance with eBay policy; you will be able to exchange Feedback with the seller and will be eligible for all eBay services associated with a transaction, such as fraud protection.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Act Now - This Offer Expires Soon

To take advantage of this opportunity, please act quickly. This offer expires Nov-25-04 14:03:37 PST.

You may purchase this item by clicking the "Buy It Now" button in this email or on the following page:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=33615

To ask the seller a question before completing this purchase, please follow the link above and click the "Ask Seller A Question" link on the item page. To learn more about Second Chance Offer, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/personal_offer.html



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Ilovemountains

I got out bid like 3 minutes from the close of the auction, so I closed out of it all together, the loser seller canceled that bidders bid and is holding me responsible for the auction. Technically I was the high bidder at the close of the auction, but I was out bid, then he retracted that bidders bid! Here is a link to the auction. Check the bid history, you will see at the bottom where my bid was placed BEFORE the high bidders, he out bid me, plain and simple, that should be it! I could buy the damn muffler its for my XT350, its principal though! I will copy and paste the sellers emails to me also!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT

Ilovemountains

This is what I sent him when I found out that I am supposed to pay him even though I was out bid.....Camelot351, you need to email me as soon as you can. There is a major problem here. The other night when I bid on your muffler at 17:08 was out bid by the Ebay member big409 that bid $52 at 17:15 "you cancelled his bid some time after the fact". The problem is as soon as I was out bid I clicked buy it now on another member?s muffler since technically I was not the winner, big409 is. I have nearly 200+ feedback and do not want a - on my account but I should not be responsible for this auction. If you find out what shipping will be I may take it, but I am not technically the high bidder I just don?t want any problems with my Ebay account. It has taken me a long time to build a solid reputation and feel bad about this, but what am I supposed to do? Had you not cancelled his bid he would have won, but at the same time had he read your instructions I would have won, in return would not have bought the Supertrapp? Please email me back when you get this, Matt
>
This is his response to me......Hello, I guess you are backing out of the deal? My item description reads that I delete any bidder with 5 or less feedbacks, so it is really as if they never bid at all and you are the high bidder. I make it clear that I reserve the right to delete bidders that I don't want to deal with. You knew that when you bid on the muffler that I would delete bidders, and I deleted his bid before the end of the auction which makes you the high bidder regardless of what happened. I understand what you are saying but you are still the high bidder and responsible. I did not ask you to bid on the muffler, you bid of your own free will.

In all of this, I have to waste time finding another buyer, begging other bidders to take the muffler, and taking less money for it. If you want to email those other bidders and ask them to buy the muffler for $46.00 + shipping, I'll let you do the work I would have to do to sell it. I don't want a deal to go bad anymore than you do, we both have excellent feedback, but I see you have 2 bid retractions in the last 6 months. I am not going to do the work of looking for a buyer, I have done that before and won't do it again. I'll relist the item and file for non paying bidder with ebay before I'll look for another buyer.

Let me know if you want to work this out with you looking for a buyer, or I'll relist it, and have to file for non paying bidder claims and such. And leave poor feedback. OR, if you want to send me payment for relisting, final value fee and my original listing fee that ebay charged me, as well as the hassle involved with all the time and invonvenience...... I'll relist the muffler on ebay and let it go for the high bid again. I figure that you sending me $10.00 for all this, we'll call it a deal and forget about it. Another option is for you to buy the muffler and sell it on ebay yourself if you don't want it. I'll leave it up to you because I don't have time to beg other buyers and won't waste my time with that, tried it and it doesn't work. Let me know what you want to do...thanks for your cooperation....

Kevin

This is my next response to him........Wow, hold on a minute, look at the time I placed my $50 bid, and the time that the guy who’s bid you pulled placed the winning high bid, its not my fault that you didn’t give him the chance to buy your item, I was out bid by him when I was watching your auction, it is not my responsibility to double check the other bidders on your items. I was watching the auction, was out bid and moved on to another auction. YOU pulled the high bid after I was already out bid not me. How can I be held responsible for that? If you would not have pulled his bid after I was out bid he would have won. As soon as I saw "you have been out bid" I bought a Supertrapp muffler!! AND my 2 bid retractions were for items that descriptions changed on thank you very much, one of which was a motorcycle that was listed with keys and a title in the parts bike catagory, I bid on it and the seller emailed me to tell me that they got confused and the title and keys were not to the bike I was bidding on, so I retracted. The other was for a set of 6.5” speakers that I was bidding on that the buyer later found out they were 6.75” over sized speakers and told me it was OK to retract my bid since they would not fit in a 6.5” door opening. I don’t know why I am justifying this to you anyway. I wish you would not have pulled his bid at the last minute but you did after I had closed out of your auction all together AFTER being out bid, moved on to another auction and bought something else. So if you are telling me that as an Ebay user it is my responsibly to check other bidders on sellers items before placing a bid you are wrong. The other Ebay member that placed the high bid should be responsible for your listing fees not me for not following your directions. I was out bid plain and simple; you pulled the high bidder not me! I was out bid on your item by some one new to Ebay and who knows it could have been a flawless transaction but you pulled his bid, not me. I was out bid, saw that I was out bid and moved on to another item I was looking at fair and square. This is like going to an auction, my raising my hand to buy an item, getting out bid by another buyer and leaving the auction house only to find out later that the buyers check didn’t clear so now I’m responsible to pay even though I was out bid, it does not work like that. I don’t want to have to leave you a negative feedback or receive one but I don’t feel that I am responsible for this one. I am very sorry that this happened but I cant see how you can hold me responsible for this.

This is his response to me again!!!!.......Don't try and hold me accountable for your actions, the fact remains that you bid on the item and knew the rules in the item description, that you need only bid if you have 5 or more positive feedbacks. You bid on my item, that means you had intentions to buy it. The other bidder had less than 5 positives, so don't tell me I did not give him a chance to buy it when he knew the rules too and that he would be deleted. You are a long time/knowledgable ebay user and would have noticed that he didn't have enough positive feedbacks, therefore would have watched to see if I deleted him. I am not going to reason my actions with you, either you are going to own up, or back out. Don't blame your actions on other bidders or your failure to watch the auction to the end. You are the high bidder when the auction ended, if you had no intentions of paying $46.00 for the item then you should not have bid $46.00 on it....you have been around ebay long enough to know that I make the rules to the auction item I am selling (see my item description), not the buyer. You have a bid retraction history as a track record already, I don't. Who is going to be credible if there is negative feedback left?

You know the options, I will not search for a buyer for you, and you can pay my costs to list, relist and final value fee or risk negative feedback if you choose not to own up to your winning bid. I will file through the proper ebay complaint forms to resolve the matter if I don't hear back from you. I will not be left holding the bag for your actions, your inability to interpret conditions of bidding on my item. You know how ebay works, so do I, don't try to hold me hostage to your actions.

This is the last email I sent to him, I am waiting to hear back from him at this point. What a loser..........Kevin, this is so freaking UN called for. Why should I check on your bidders? Why should I have to do that? I got a message from Ebay that said you have been out bid would you like to bid again, I thought nope, so I closed the auction out. If you want a negative feedback on your account, then leave me one. I wont leave anything first but this isn’t cool. I am not going to pay for something that I don’t need and your bribe of sending you $10 to cover your fees or else is wrong, totally wrong. I mean what is your problem? Have you been screwed over on Ebay by so many people with fewer than 5+ feedbacks that you just cancel people’s bids; I mean did you even check the REAL HIGH BIDDERS FEEDBACK, the guy that SHOULD HAVE WON YOUR AUCTION? He only had 4 but all of them were A+ great feedback, all for items costing more than your muffler, he actually bought a muffler for a Yamaha a few weeks ago, you need to lighten up some, you could have and should have been the seller to give the guy a break and sold him the damn muffler, it’s a freaking dirt bike muffler for gods sake, and then he would have the precious 5 positive feedbacks that you so desperately needed. I really think this is sad, if you are so hard up for money I will PayPal you a few $ out of the kindness of my heart for the holidays to cover your Ebay fees, but I have to tell you this is sad, plain sad. You had the time to email me this book, so you did have time to email the REAL high bidder of your muffler, so I hope you have a great and pleasant holiday, have a cold beer and calm down, life’s too damn short.

GTE4runner

You don't have to pay anything. When the winning bidder backs out on ebay, the seller has the option to give a second chance offer to any of the other people that placed bids on the item; the ones who did not win the auction. Those people are NOT required to buy the item. They can if they want to, but they have absolutely no obligation. The seller wants to sell his exhaust and is trying to bully you into buying it because the winner backed out. Because you have not accepted the second chance offer he has no ability to leave you feedback. If you want to pursue reporting it to ebay, go ahead, but in any case tell the seller he is full of crap and ignore him.

Neo541

You're definitely on the hook since Ebay lists you as the highest bidder. Sucks that he's making you, but he stated under what circumstances he would remove bidders, and he stuck to it. If you don't buy it, and he just let's it go, he's out money that he paid to list it.

I would be more pissed off if he had not stated he would remove bidders.

I see your point, and have done the exact same thing before, but luckily i've never had it happen.

Either you buy it or you get a neg, in my opinion.

GTE4runner

Oh I slipped in just after your reply there. That totally sucks man - what an ass. Best of luck I guess

Neo541

If you look at Ilovemountains link to his auction, he WON the auction, so the second chance offer does not apply to him.

4RUNR

Ilovemountains, you are in the wrong here, especially after reading the correspondence above where you teach the guy how to live.

He knows what he's doing, and he was nice enough to explicitly state that he will remove bidders with less than 5 feedback, so there is nothing surprising there.

Now even though you deserve a negative I'll give you advice on how to possibly avoid it: read Ebay rules that concern sellers retracting bids. Under what conditions and for what reasons it is allowed. You might get off on a technicality if you involve Ebay authorities.