nermalgod

My home town now has an ethanol station selling E85 and E105. Think I could put E85 in my 2000 V6 Tacoma? I've been told that it's not new enough but I was wondering if anyone had experience or suggestions. 87 octane is selling for $2.28 while E85 is $1.71. Can you see why I'm asking?

Paul H.

I would not unless your owners manual says it is ok.

NESW20

do not use E85 in any vehicle that is not designed for it. i'm fairly certain that all tacomas are NOT designed for it.

-Mike

98LimitedCustomized

Don't do it. Some people get away with blending the E85 and regular but for the hassle and whatever damage it will do, I doubt it's worth it. That E105 is 99.8% (not possitive on the tenth digit) ethanol, and is essentially race gas. Good stuff if you've got the equipment to handle it.

There are a lot of idiots who use E85 in their non E85 vehicles to save money: they are dumb, the repairs will cost more than they ever would have saved.

nermalgod

I have no manual, that's why I'm asking if it's okay to run E85. Anyone know for sure? My gut says no, but I would love to fill up on the cheap. On a side note, what changes internally for a vehicle to accept E85?

NESW20

it's mostly fuel maps that are different for E85. IIRC, stoich for ethanol is closer to 7:1 a/f ratio instead of 14.7:1 for gasoline, whatever the case, you need to dump A LOT more E85 into the cylinders than gasoline. aside from that, the hardware is pretty much the same.

-Mike

nermalgod

So if I were to replace the fuel injectors . . . ?

My interest is peaked. I think a conversion is in order. I would love to support the local economy and personally reduce my dependancy on foreign energy. The ethenal is made right next door to the station and the corn comes from farmer in the county. m

Who's the expert on this? Where should I go for info?

tc

Go to the E85 coalition:

http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php

No Toyotas on the list...

NESW20

you wouldn't need to replace the fuel injectors, you'd need to completely remap your fuel delivery. read: need a standalone EMS and careful tuning. the only reason you'd need to replace the injectors is if you were running 100% duty cycle on them and still not getting enough fuel into the combustion chambers. remember though, you'll never get as much energy out of a unit of ethanol as you will a unit of gasoline, so you will get reduced fuel economy.

personally i wouldn't bother with it. the cost of the actual EMS, tuning, and reduced fuel economy and possible longevity concerns far outweigh any benefit that i can see.

still an interesting idea. good luck if you plan to pursue it.

-Mike

Lt. Dan

I smell a write-up!! (If it works)
Keep us poasted!

nermalgod

I think it's do-able. Just not on my salery. I would have never guessed a VW bus would run off of french fries but damn if the hippies didn't figure out a way.

Keggo

Listen to what people are saying... you're going to have to use twice as much E85, judging by the figures NESW20 gave, to go the same distance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound worth it to me.

98LimitedCustomized

I'm not an expert but I know my s**t... the E85 is alcohol, alcohol dries stuff out. Dried out rubber cracks and breaks. You would indeed need different fuel injectors, contrary to above, as the seals would go out on them.

The flex fuel vehicles that are out there get way worse mileage on E85 than on regular unleaded. So, the E85 might be cheaper but you'll use a lot more of it. On the same note you won't see many flex fuel trucks, they don't have the same power on E85.

You ever put diesel in your truck? No, why not? Oh because it isn't made for it, I see. Same deal with E85, your vehicle isn't made for it so don't put it in. I'm all for ethanol, we have a ethanol and soy plants, I've invested in ethanol plants, and I'm from a farm.... so I hope the technology comes along to where we get the kinks worked out, but we're not quite there yet. Convinced to leave the E85 out? If you want to support ethanol make sure you pumps the 10% unleaded.

nermalgod

Based on that logic, adding HEET in winter would be bad because it is alcohol used to dry out the condensation formed to keep things from freezing.

I realize there are issues with running this stuff. Worse gas mileage but better karma points and I don't need excessive horsepower for normal driving. I did look at that list and it was almost all trucks, Every manufacturer except Toyota had their trucks on the list. I would actually expect bigger vehicles to make the list because they have the power to spare.

And let's all remember, this is clean burning stuff. Buying locally and protecting the environment trumps personal gain in my book often. My profession has me outside and I see environmental impact first hand. I'm trying to do something for the greater good.

Keggo

Worse gas mileage but better karma points...? You mean, as in it burns cleaner? How much cleaner does it burn? Also, if you're putting more of this "cleaner burning" fuel and using a lot more than regular gas, you're not really getting any more "karma points". Anyway, I would like to find a better alternative to gas also. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, just have to look at it from all angles. Like with Hydrogen powered vehicles... sure the only emission would be water, but think about how much energy it takes to properly get hydrogen to the state it needs to be in. It's always a double edged sword... you fix one thing, you create another problem. It's a giant slider puzzle...

nermalgod

That is very true about preperation. However, we as americans have never known the true cost of gasoline. The stuff is cheaper per gallon than milk and that is just some machine squeeze cow's ta-tas. Refining gas takes a lot, not to mention moving the crude from all over the world. Besides economic cost, look at political and social costs. Our administration is fixated on one part of the globe for a reason. Buying locally makes a big difference.

This is turning into a political thread and all I wanted to know is if and how I could make my truck run on corn.

kyle_22r

ethanol eats fuel system components unless they're made out of alcohol resistant materials(rubber fuel lines and carb diaphragms mainly). also, it has a lower BTU rating that gasoline, so you need more compression to bring your power and mileage back to gasoline levels. fortunately, it's really resistant to pinging -- there's a reason race engines are running 16:1 compression on alcohol...

NESW20

as for the race engines running higher CR's, remember, since they have to use a lot more fuel to stay stoich, there's a lot more mass of fuel being dumped into the combustion chambers to help keep it cooler/absorb heat. also, yes, higher octane ratings for ethanol help with the CR.

another quality of ethanol is that it has a greater ability to absorb water than gasoline, so it will soak up, if you will, more condensation and carry it through your engine than gasoline will. BUT, in colder climates, cold starts become an issue because ethanol has considerably less volatility (ability to become a vapor at a given temperature; liquid does not burn) than gasoline does.

-Mike

WVpizzaguy

Not going to get into the pros and cons .... just pulling some links out of my favorites that go along with this thread to a degree. I've been thinking of setting a still up in the back field.... I figured I could make ethanol for 1.15 per gallon buying corn at Southern States for around $4.88/50 lbs ... Once again not trying to hyjack the thread just giving you all something to chew on.
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/inc/pdetail?v=1&pid=468
http://www.offyparts.com/product_inf...c3f728efef88c2

kyle_22r

yep, you have to go all out to run good on the stuff. super hot ignition, big carb jets/fuel injectors, hi compression.

someday i'd like to build a big block rig and run it on booze fuel