Tacoma Dude

Okay so there's this 1st gen across the street from me and the owner was wondering about some clutch problems he ran into yesterday. Revving high but not really going anywhere.

Courtesy of Milton (Cabbage) - this is what the Haynes manual has to say:
1 - Worn or oil soaked clutch plate
2 - Clutch plate no broken in. It may take 30 or 40 normal starts for a new clutch to seat (this is not the case though)
3 - Diaphragm spring weak or damaged. Remove clutch cover/pressure plate assembly and inspect.
4 - Flywheel warped or scored
5 - Debris in master cylinder preventing the piston from returning to its normal position (don't think this is the case either)
6 - Clutch hydraulic line damaged.

So this happened at a nearby intersection from a red light - engine speed increase with no increase in actual speed. According to Haynes the clutch is slipping. I went on a drive yesterday and it increases in speed but very slowly. I have no idea what the drive is like today after having sat in one place for 24 hours (the runner).

What's it sound like to you guys?
Is there one part that should be looked at more so than anything else?
I tried a search and someone mentioned putting it in first and easing off the clutch. If it stalls then the clutch is still good. If the engine continues to run then it's bad. Does this hold any merit?

Thanks everyone!
Man, I'm glad I have a Tacoma in my driveway

EDIT:
Oh yeah, 22RE with about 149K miles.
Dunno if the clutch has ever been replaced.

Unhappy99

Possible rear main seal leaking, but most likely worn clutch. Needs a new clutch kit. Clutches generally last 70K to 120K miles, depending on use.

About 'putting it in first and easing off': Try 4th or 5th, not first, and if the engine continues to run, don't try it very long or the flywheel will overheat and warp.

StoryR

Had it been previously slipping, just not so dramatically? I wore my clutch on my 4runner until I acually couldn't move any longer. Sounds to me like his clutch is shot (or getting there at least).

Tacoma Dude

Unhappy:
I think you may be close... I've noticed that there's something that's been leaking underneath - usually dribbles down the engine oil reservoir and off of the sway bar. Could that be where the rear seal is? There isn't much fluid missing from the master cylinder - mebbe 1/2 a cm below the notch. The slave cylinder moves just fine but the boot around it is pretty trashed.

Anybody have any more suggestions? Apparently Toyota will replace the clutch for $1300

rimpainter.com

$1300! I got mine replaced for $700 at the dealer.

Tacoma Dude

Ha, maybe I should suggest a road trip to AZ.
Wow, that's a big difference.

Unhappy99

Dripping off the sway bar sounds too far forward for it to be the rear main seal. Could be the front main seal though, and these are known to go out as well. Otherwise there are lots of places to leak, such as oil filter, oil pan gasket, valve cover, etc.

The rear main seal is appropriately located on the rear of crankshaft, directly in front of the flywheel. The flywheel inspection cover plate removes easily. If any oil is on the inside of this cover plate, the rear main is leaking.

Even if it's not leaking, and the clutch is simply worn, it is a good idea to replace the rear seal while in there. Just be VERY CAREFUL not to scratch the crankshaft wear surface while removing the old seal.

And $1300 is obscene. Its a $300 clutch assembly (OEM Toyota, $120 from everybody else), and ~5 hours of labor. A Centerforce clutch assembly is another option, IMO far superior to factory organics.

gwhayduke

My '95 had the same symptoms. Leaking rear main seal oiled the clutch. Cost me a grand at the dealer, but I had them order a TRD heavy-duty clutch kit that included a 5lb heavier flywheel. It really helps on takeoffs. Also had them replace the front seal on the tranny while they were in there. Several of the guys on the board have replaced the clutch themselves...You could save about $500.

Flamedx4

If you're mechanically inclined (sounds like you are, but is HE?) a clutch is easy to do at home. (Rent a transmission jack.) They Haynes/Clymer whatever manual detail it well enough, it's pretty simple. The only issue is if you have to have the flywheel turned, and you usually do. But in any event - jeez - Dont Go to a Dealer!! Look in the yellow pages, ask around, whatever, find an independent mechanic that comes recommended and give him the business, save half the money (or more) in the process.

Flamedx4

Gotta tell a story. Years ago when I first bought the 85 4R I was getting 12-14 mpg. The dealer would ck it out, find nothing wrong, and bill me for the time since they can't warranty what they don't fix. Happened about 3x. I finally went to a competing dealer who found and fixed the problem (head gasket,) and they even gave me the info I needed to send to Regional to get reimbursed for the original bills, and called me a month later to see if my mileage was up to snuff. Needless to say, even though my father was the finance manager at the first dealership, they never got any more shop business from me. Moral, shop around, even for warranty work dealers are not all alike.

Second story, after warranty expired I went to a local shop that came well recommended. I used them for things like repacking front wheel bearings and various stuff that needs fixed from time to time. (I was younger then, I'm a reasonably competent mechanic now...) Once, after I had bought the tools to do my front bearings myself (heavily offroading and needing to do it more than once a year) I took apart a hub and found a dry bearing (or nearly so.) The shop had messed up last time in! I called them up really just to mention it so it hopefully wouldn't happen again, they came over to my house, replaced the bearings in both sides, repacked them, apologized, and gave me a ticket for a oil & filter and chassis lube job at my convenience! Needless to say, I still use them occasionally and I've sent them a lot of business. Can you imagine a dealer giving a damn like that?

gwhayduke

That's pretty good. I live in El Paso, but always take my business to Las Cruces Toyota. They've always made good on anything that may have not been done right in the first place. And they gave me a loaner car while they did the clutch job.

rimpainter.com

How would a 5lb heavier flywheel help on take-offs? Or do you mean the clutch helped?

gwhayduke

Flywheels store energy. More mass = more energy stored at a given rpm. That stored energy gets put to use when you let the clutch out and the energy is transferred to your drivetrain. If you have a lightweight flywheel and a low torque engine, then you will have to rev the engine higher to generate the same amount of energy a heavier flywheel has stored at a lower rpm.

Pretty simple explanation for a fairly complex phenomena. Flywheels are so good at storing energy, that there continues to be quite a bit of research into replacing batteries with small flywheels rotating at extremely high rpms (>20,000 rpm).

Town driving and trail driving is where you appreciate the heavier flywheel the most.

rimpainter.com

But won't a heavier flywheel make the acceleration slower (moment of inertia)?

I mean, won't it require more energy to turn the wheel initially?

Amacfarl

it's a tradeoff

gwhayduke

True. But folks who fret about moment of inertia shouldn't drive 31" wheels. Might I suggest a Mini Cooper?

jimbo74

hehehe i have 31s on my 4x2 toyota.... the heavier flywheel would help me out a lot... welll so would gears