PismoJoe

Hey everyone, I need some help diagnosing a clutch issue that I am having with my 2002 Tacoma, 3rz, w59 trans. Done some researching for a while with no avail....

Heres the deal....

Randomly (but commonly) my truck refuses to go into gear. ANY gear. And I have never owned a car that is an auto, so it's not in my driving ability.

At startup, if you push the clutch in prior to starting, and hold it down, I can run through all gears with no resistance whatsoever. BUT let off the clutch and try it again (the truck is running now) it will throw a fit. Then randomly, it will allow me to put it into gear

1. Brand new clutch release cyl
2. Bled the whole system and refilled (obviously for the new slave)
3. New trans gear oil (Mobil1 Fully Synthetic GL-5 75w-90)
4. Clutch pedal bracket is not bent
5. Firewall where clutch master sits is not dented/bent/creased
6. Clutch master cyl looks brand new, no leaks


Here are my real questions

A. If its in the hydraulic system (i.e. clutch pedal not adjusted properly) why does it only do it sometimes?
B. If it only does it sometimes, could this be a pressure plate issue?
C. How do you tell a clutch pressure plate issue apart from another clutch related issue?

I'm going nuts over this issue, I feel like I have checked everything and my truck is still a PITA to get into gear

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

sycro's worn? Maybe pull the tranny and check for clutch pressure plate fualts?

PismoJoe

That's what I was initially thinking, but if the syncros were worn, wouldn't it do it all the time? I can shift perfectly sometimes....you know when the moon and the sun line up lol not often but it happens

I'm thinking more and more that its pressure plate related....original clutch, but it still grips fine so I really don't want to dig into it...Never really heard of a pressure plate wearing before a clutch disk but I haven't seen alot of things either....Thanks for the ideas though!

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

what about the shifter bushing. Seems to fit better i think for your symptoms

PismoJoe

wow maybe I'm thinking too hard about this lol

GREAT call! Will pull the shifter tomorrow and post some good old porn pics if you know what I mean....

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

Truck porn!!! nice!

PismoJoe

Alright vital...sadly I do not think that was the culprit. There were no grooves or visible wear on the bushing, it actually looked pretty damn perfect with 130k on it lol





I've noticed that if I match up RPM's, shifting is much easier. Like if I'm pulling up to a stop sign and throw it from 2nd to 1st right before I stop, its like butter. Then again, for no reason it shifts perfect sometimes....

I checked the pedal height and it all seems to be ok...Man this is frustrating

PismoJoe

any ideas? I'm leaning towards pressure plate, but has anyone seen a pressure plate fail before a clutch disk?

stepside trd

This might have nothing to do with it, but just to think outside the box, did you ever noticed if it happens when the truck is at a certain temp., say, when the trans. is hot, or early mornings on a cold start, etc......

PismoJoe

Hot or cold, it doesn't matter. I have noticed that on a moderate to steep downhill slope it is especially hard to get it into gear...

And thanks for the response! I'll take all the ideas I can get, like I said I'm stumped and I have replaced a lot of clutches, but never came across an issue quite like this

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I am thinking maybe for some reason the throwout bearing fork area. Something in this area bent broke or what ever causing the release bearing to not move like it should.

Other then it won`t go in gear. You don`t say but I would think If you attempt to put it in gear . It would be like trying to shift from a stop without any clutch.

When It works it all lines up and does what it should.

when you are moving and blip the throttle it more ore less gets every thing moving the same speed so it almost falls right into gear..

You don`t say anything about it popping out of gear while driving .

Like most Transmission and clutch problems you never know till you take it all apart.

Good luck

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

yeah by bushing, i'm talking about where the shifter handle sits in the plate that you pulled off. I'm leaning towards syncro's if the bushing is still intact.

PismoJoe

Ohhh gotcha yes I checked that one as well, it looked really good, and the spring was fine too. Ugh I thought we would have nailed it for sure!

I would agree with the syncros, but sometimes it shifts perfect, which is making me lean towards a clutch issue. I mean, if it is the syncros, I might as well just bend over ha I don't have the $$ to rebuild a tranny.

If my clutch was slipping I would be down to get my on and pull her apart...

Either way its not looking very good. Syncros or clutch issue I guess

PismoJoe

wyoming, nope it doesn't pop out of gear, and when i try to rev the engine to match up tranny/engine rotation, it doesn't make it any easier to shift.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I know there are different length rods used on the clutch slave cylinder as the clutch wore it no longer would do it`s job but once in a while.

Please let us know what you do find. Just when did it start doing this??

Good luck

PismoJoe

Yeah I replaced the clutch slave with the correct one though.

I can't go into any gear, so its not the tranny, and sometimes it shifts fine
Clutch pedal height/freeplay is perfect
New Slave, good master, no air in system
Good shifter bushings and retainer spring

So I guess that leaves the pressure plate I have heard that they can wear out before the disk, just never seen it firsthand like this. As soon as I finish my 4runner I'm going to do the clutch

snobdds

I believe it is syncro's related too. I am pretty sure the transmission can be ran on GL-5 gear oil, but it's too slippery for the syncro's to engage properly. Toyota transmissions like GL-4 gear oil. It might be as simple as that...

PismoJoe

I would agree but I can't engage in any gear at random times. 1 2 3 4 5 R

If I only lost being able to engage in 1st or 2nd, then syncros would be more likely.

I had GL-4 in the first place, I switched to GL-5 to see if there was a difference but did not notice one. The GL-4 coming out was only about 20k old as well, so it was fairly fresh.

Thanks for the ideas though!

CitrusTheDragon

I had a similar problem after I did my clutch and it was because the fork had slipped off the throwout bearing, I didn't discover it till after I burned out the new clutch. Some times it worked other times I had to push hard to get any shift out of it

PismoJoe

Yeah I would definitely notice if it was the clutch fork ha it shifts perfectly when I'm moving, its just a PITA to get into gear sometimes/most of the time coming off of a dead stop.