TRunner

My engine has been running like poo for a long while now. Underpowered, bad gas milage, rough idle, lights dim with rough idle, eats oil if it aint straight HD30, have to keep the ECT button on in order to drive on the freeway, etc...

I'm getting on the freeway this morning and the engine starts reving real high but I'm not getting any faster. So I let off and all I could maintain was 40mph, but with the aweful sound that this thread is appropriately titled after. So I check gauges and nothing new. My check engine light is still on from my code 25 (that I can't figure out) and nothing is overheating, but hey! My oil pressure is falling and now gone! I nursed it home (only about a mile away) going very slowly and watched the engine temp. Got it home and stuck 3 quarts in it to top it off and fired her up. Looked for leaks and found none. Checked the codes again and now I have a 14 & 25. The 14 could have triggered at anytime in the last few months as the light has been on for a long time. So I cleared out the codes and fired it up again to pin point the noise. It seems to be coming from the top of the engine block.

Does anyone know where I should start looking for problems or what I should do? Would it be better/cost as much to just put in that 3.4 now? The sound kicks in at over 3000RPM.

BTW I am @ 188,000 miles.

mastacox

Ouch, maybe lifter damage? Losing that much oil is a major issue, you might be dumping it straight into your cylinders, was it smoking a lot? Working on a problem that serious may be money in a fire later on, might be time to invest in an engine swap.

Might I suggest a Vortec Chevy small block?

bike4miles

Yea, sounds like RIP for that motor. Sorry to say.

TRunner

I did not notice any smoke. I wasn't looking, but even one quart of oil getting burned off would be very noticable in that short amount of time. I am now wondering if the pressure fell not because it was low, but because pressure dropped. Like maybe a bad head or dropped valve.


That is the only good thing out of all this that I can see right now.


Blasfamy! If anything I am going to drop in the 3.4. Though I would put a chevy engine in it over any other domestic, I would never want to stray away from toyota for my daily driver. Get me a full time trail rig and I would drop in a hemi!


I am going to rip it down to the valves tonight and see if anything looks funky. lets hope for the best or win that stupid loto tonight!!!!!

gwhayduke

Bummer...
I'm dreading your problems. I agree about the swap though...time to think about what else is going in that engine bay. There's nothing wrong with a nice small block Chevy or Ford...Lots of juice when you step in it and it probably wouldn't get any worse gas mileage than what you got before the problems. Those 3.4's still command pretty good prices...you could get a new crate engine for about the same.

TRunner

Pulled the valve cover on the side that seemed to be making the most noise, thinking we have a collapsed valve. I still need to pull that head this weekend in order to check the valve, but I am wondering why it would collapse.

Where is the oil pump and how often do they fail?

Does the oil feed run from front to back?

The reason I am asking is, the noise is comming from the back of the block meaning if it is a collapsed valve, then it is one in the back. Would the lack of oil or the pumping of oil cause this vavle to fail before others?

All in all, it appears I am at least going to get the fuel injectors flow tested, looks like a valve job is in order (anyone know any good cheap places?), and I might as well replace the timing belt. As for eating a quart of oil every 750 miles, I think the rungs should be replaced and cylindars honed.

Does all this sound about right to you grease monkeys?

radrex

My friend - the most expensive part of this operation will be the Heads - Look for around $700-800 for the machine work.

Once you've got the heads off - you can buy a rebuilt short block for $1200 or so. You can also have the short block rebuilt for around 6-700.

Then throw in all of the miscellaneous pulley's, idlers, water pump and oil pump --you might look to spend around $2500.00 when it's all said and done.

That is what it cost me and I just got done. Probably not worth it for a truck with 188K miles. (Mine only has a 100k)

TRunner

So are you saying I need to replace the heads!? I figure a valve job is all that is needed. The heads and cams seem to be in perfect shape. Just replace the gaskets and they should still be fine. The water pump could be replaced, but I am on my third one so far and never had one fail so I figure I don't really need to do that right yet. This one is only about 15,000 miles old. Pulleys are all good and belts are to. In fact the timing belt is is about the same, so I wouldn't even need to do that yet.

Or do I sound like an ignoramous?

If it is that much, then engine swap time it is!!!!

AKennedy87

Almost the same thing happend to me a few weeks ago, but no major oil leaks. Some dude said it was possibly crank damage but I am not 100% sure. As of now I am throwing a 22RE with 90k on it (87 4Runner is what I have now). I will also pull the current engine and try to rebuild it, hoping there Is no damage to the block itself. I will also probably do a valve job. If i can then maybe I'll make myself a new trail rig, but I dont want to look that far ahead... Well good luck to ya!

radrex

No - I'm saying that it's gonna cost somewhere in the vicinity of 600-700 just for a "Valve Job" at a machine shop-- and another 200 for the Gasket Set. That's if no valves need to be replaced and they don't need to have any cracks welded etc..

You can purchase "Rebuilt Heads" for about the same price if your cores are good.

My point is once your down $1000.00 or so on the Head rebuild - might as well go for the gusto and do the lower end as well.

If your going to try to do the work yourself - It will take many many hours and a goodly amount of skill to pull it off.

My Toyota Dealer - wants $3000.00 just to replace a head gasket on a 3vze - Lots of Hours labor.

It took me a few months to rebuild my 3vze - working on weekends of course

TRunner

I gotcha... I actually work for a welding and machine shop, so I can get anything machined, but if it comes to mechanical stuff like valves, I need to get a professional to do it. I think I can get the valve job done for about 500-800 depending on what needs to be replaced. I don't think there is any cracking as it never heated up. I'll see this weekend, but removing the head (timing belt and all) is the hour intensive stuff. Unfortunatley that is what I will be doing this whole weekend.

If am starting to look like it will be over $2500 it will be a new engine for sure, but right now this is what it looks like:

gaskets and belts = $200
Valve job = $600
Injectors flowtested and cleaned = $80
oil and filter = $20

BTW - have someone else do the head gasket. $3000 is about $1800 too much. I have seen less hours charged to remove an old and put in a new engine... Including the head gasket!

radrex

Splitting hairs here - but 200.00 is optimistic for Gaskets and Belts. 300.00 is more like it. Especially if your getting the timing belt and all the injector gaskets.

Head Bolts - $60.00 cause you can't reuse the old ones

Then of course - your going to change the water pump, probably the timing idlers - front seal. Another 200-300.

It cost me 150.00 to have RC Engineering do my injectors.

While you have the heads off - might as well replace the Starter cause it is seriously buried - 130.00 (Bosch)

At the end of the day, You might as well do it right the first time.

TRunner

Might not do the timing belt if it is only 10-15k old.


adding that to the tally...


nope. Not gonna replace anything that is less then a year old.

This guy only charges $12 per injector. Someone in here gave me his info.


Not gonna replace the starter for no reason.


I understand where you are coming from, but I think you may be taking it a bit too far. If I had 80-100k on all this equipment I would agree with you completely. Or even 50k+. With every barely used item you are telling me to replace it would seem I am working on a ford engine here.

radrex

You get what you pay for.. Personally, I can vouch for RC Engineering. They even provided me the before and after test results - and the injectors looked brand new and had new Rubber Gaskets. Well worth the 24 bucks in my opinion. Good luck with the 12 dollar guy.

Good luck on the Re-build.

TRunner

Like I said, he was refered to me by guys in this site who had used him. He provides you with full test results before and after. Go check out his site. Paying to much does not mean you are getting better service, in fact it could mean you are getting bent over. Have fun dishing out $3000 for only a head gasket replacement.

radrex

Your probably right. I got screwed.

But at least I'm happy about it..:-)

HondaTec521

Grease monkey here ! Why fix anything.Youv'e been driving it for months with the check engine light on,the engine running on less than six cylinders,and then you state you drove home slowly with no oil pressure. Now your whining about cost ?........................Give us a break !

934rnr

You sure you don't have rod bearings going? Low oil pressure is a tell tale sign of bad bearings. You are likely hearing rod end knock.
This is what your oil pump looks like:

Here it is installed:


As far as having the heads machined look at about $200-250 range. I had mine resurfaced, cleaned and a 3 angle valve grind done for that.
If your cam journals are in good shape that will save you some money as well.

I put new standard rod end bearings on $45 and main bearings $45 and a new ring set on $80.

I just cleaned up my crank I didn't get it machined because if they are in good shape why bother.

New oil pump $65

Dude it's not hard to shim your valves just very time consuming. I did it a not too long ago when I rebuilt my 3 slow. All you have to have is a feeler gauge and a micrometer write the measurements down as you check each intake and exhaust valve to get them into spec. The easiest way is to turn it with the timing belt on the cams with the cams torqued down to spec check all the valves make a chart with each cylinder intake and exhaust measurements. Then pull the cams off and mic each valve shim per cylinder add or subract what you will need to get it into spec. Go out and get the shims that you will need from a engine rebuild shop because toyota will charge you 2x's what they sell them for at a engine shop. I got the valve shims for about $4 a peice at a engine shop. Put the shims in and cams and T-belt back on then check the gaps again with the feeler gauge and repeat if necessary no real mystery to it. The only real pita is trying to get the valve shims out of the valve spring buckets I found using a small flat tip screw driver works though. I think it was worth not spending the $600-700 to have someone do it cause you can do it yourself for less than $50 with the shims.

So in all I think I spent about $700-800 rebuilding my engine.

TRunner

The check engine light is a lean code that I have been trying to tackle for a while. 4 out of 4 mechanics I took it to all had no idea and different suggestions. Nobody in here has even had a clue. What I was leaning to the last week or so was a bad wireing harnes for the O2 Sensor, as it has been running rich while giving me a lean code. As for driving it home, I was not far and knew the engine was still OK. It was not heating up or straining, just lossing power and oil pressure. The engine was fine for gimping it back home. If it wasn't I would have pulled over.

So you ask why fix anything? Because it's freaking broke!

You wonder why I am whining about cost? Because I am freaking broke! I don't have an endless supply of money and I know for a fact that paying as much as radrex does for anything is completely avoidable if you just get your hands dirty and have some fun working on your own rig.

What happened to the comrodoery if this place? It seems that there are more folks bashing then helping. What happend to all the wonderful help like what 934rnr just gave?

TRunner

I was thinking about that myself over this last weekend. I now have only the exhaust manafold to remove before taking out the heads for good inspection of the valves, so I will make sure to check the bearings as well.

Very impressive. You are one of the guys I am glad is still in this group. I deffinately have a couple more things I want to look for now. As for the valve job, I may save my time on that and get someone else to do it. I will have a bit more free time this next month, but I am going to need my truck back within a few weeks, so I will probably have to bite the bullet on that one.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions!!!!!