CEL Trouble
06-01-2014, 05:24 AM
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CEL Trouble
Hey all!
Recently I was bored one day and got to thinking about my 2004 Tacoma (3.4L). I am the second owner and was unsure if the first owner had ever gotten the plugs replaced. Everything ran okay and not a problem was known about it. At 150k miles I thought it would be a good idea to pull them and see what kind of shape the plugs were in. A fun little project to kill some time.
To my surprise, completely ignoring the stickers everywhere saying "Twin ground electrode plugs ONLY" someone had gone and stuck single ground NGK BKR5EGP in it.. Poor truck! I decided to remedy this and buy some of the fsm suggested twin ground plugs. So over to E-bay I went and ordered some Denso K16TR11 plugs, they got here and I installed them, slammed the hood and fired her up. Ran great! drove great, I was happy.
A few days later (about 15 miles drive time) on the way to work one morning the CEL popped.. Hmm that was weird right? It ran okay still, nothing seemed wrong with it. So, I dug into it a little, google searched for "CEL after new spark plugs Tacoma" found that sometimes when you unplug certain harnesses it can set a code off. So, hoping for a fluke I reset it (unplugged battery for a couple hours) It went away and all was well...
Few days later (about 15 miles again) it came back, Okay. It was not a fluke.. Time to get serious. A little more digging I came across the great "Denso vs NGK debate" Some people had complained about Densos being gapped wrong from the factory (from what I understand you cannot really gap the twin ground plugs?) A lot of people preferred NGK and some said this would indeed cause the CEL to come on if an inpropper gap was to blame.
So, back to ebay I went to order the OTHER fsm recommended NGK BKR5EKB-11. They got here a few days later and I installed them. Reset the CEL once again and away we went. All was well once again, for a few more days... same about 15 miles drive time later it popped again! Okay back to the internets to see what I can do (Cause you know, getting the code read for free somewhere would make too much sense)
I took a long hard look at my cheap lifestyle and realized I did NOT do the wires when I got new plugs. Okay okay, I should have. So let's go do that. I got some nice new ones for 40 bucks (for 3 wires?! geez!) Replaced them all and guess what?
No go. same, 3 days, 15 miles later it popped again... Hmm okay. Let's keep looking (Still not getting the code read? what a dumbass) I read it was PROBABLY a misfire code. Being as it happened after I got new plugs, So they say if it is a misfire code, to swap that coil pack, if the misfire code follows the coil pack, it is the coil pack. If it does not follow, it is an injector and to repeat the swap thing with the injector and see if it follows.
So off my happy ass went to get the code read. It did NOT come up with a misfire code at all! It gave me these 3:
P0441- EVAP incorrect purge flow
P0442- Evaporative Emission Control System Leak Detected
P0446- Evaporative Emissions control Circ. Malfunction
ALL EVAP codes? I know nothing about the emissions/EVAP on these trucks :S So let's dig into that a little!
Most common cause, bad charcoal canister. Hmm, *looks them up* HOLY CRAP! 300 bucks?! Okay, it looks like we CAN test the canister that's on there by taking it off, hooking a 9 volt battery up to it and seeing if the valve opens/closes. Well.. taking it off is going to be a bitch so let's skip that for now...
Second most common cause.. Gas cap?? -.- are you kidding me? I go out, inspect the gas cap. As I take it off I hear that nice satisfying "hissssss" of the fumes escaping, or wait.. is it sucking air in? At any rate the seal on the gas cap looks great, the filler neck looks great. Does not appear to be a vacuum leak because of that nice satisfying hiss... Am I wrong to assume that? Should I order the $20 gas cap and just try it out even though the old one looks great?
I inspected every hose I can and cannot seem to find anything cracked/split/installed wrong. I can install the old plugs and see if the light stays off, that would tell me that the new, correct plugs are somehow indicating a problem somewhere else? That was going to be my next step.
Anyone else think it could just be one hell of a coincidence that right after new plugs, my EVAP system is starting to fail, and that is really has nothing to do with the new plugs? Possibly I messed up the hoses when I took the air box and a few other hoses off to install the new plugs? I was sure I got them all back on where they go... There isn't very many.
I know I can go in for a smoke test but first thought that I would swing by here and see if anyone has any ideas. Thank you for the time to read this guys, let me know what you think!
Recently I was bored one day and got to thinking about my 2004 Tacoma (3.4L). I am the second owner and was unsure if the first owner had ever gotten the plugs replaced. Everything ran okay and not a problem was known about it. At 150k miles I thought it would be a good idea to pull them and see what kind of shape the plugs were in. A fun little project to kill some time.
To my surprise, completely ignoring the stickers everywhere saying "Twin ground electrode plugs ONLY" someone had gone and stuck single ground NGK BKR5EGP in it.. Poor truck! I decided to remedy this and buy some of the fsm suggested twin ground plugs. So over to E-bay I went and ordered some Denso K16TR11 plugs, they got here and I installed them, slammed the hood and fired her up. Ran great! drove great, I was happy.
A few days later (about 15 miles drive time) on the way to work one morning the CEL popped.. Hmm that was weird right? It ran okay still, nothing seemed wrong with it. So, I dug into it a little, google searched for "CEL after new spark plugs Tacoma" found that sometimes when you unplug certain harnesses it can set a code off. So, hoping for a fluke I reset it (unplugged battery for a couple hours) It went away and all was well...
Few days later (about 15 miles again) it came back, Okay. It was not a fluke.. Time to get serious. A little more digging I came across the great "Denso vs NGK debate" Some people had complained about Densos being gapped wrong from the factory (from what I understand you cannot really gap the twin ground plugs?) A lot of people preferred NGK and some said this would indeed cause the CEL to come on if an inpropper gap was to blame.
So, back to ebay I went to order the OTHER fsm recommended NGK BKR5EKB-11. They got here a few days later and I installed them. Reset the CEL once again and away we went. All was well once again, for a few more days... same about 15 miles drive time later it popped again! Okay back to the internets to see what I can do (Cause you know, getting the code read for free somewhere would make too much sense)
I took a long hard look at my cheap lifestyle and realized I did NOT do the wires when I got new plugs. Okay okay, I should have. So let's go do that. I got some nice new ones for 40 bucks (for 3 wires?! geez!) Replaced them all and guess what?
No go. same, 3 days, 15 miles later it popped again... Hmm okay. Let's keep looking (Still not getting the code read? what a dumbass) I read it was PROBABLY a misfire code. Being as it happened after I got new plugs, So they say if it is a misfire code, to swap that coil pack, if the misfire code follows the coil pack, it is the coil pack. If it does not follow, it is an injector and to repeat the swap thing with the injector and see if it follows.
So off my happy ass went to get the code read. It did NOT come up with a misfire code at all! It gave me these 3:
P0441- EVAP incorrect purge flow
P0442- Evaporative Emission Control System Leak Detected
P0446- Evaporative Emissions control Circ. Malfunction
ALL EVAP codes? I know nothing about the emissions/EVAP on these trucks :S So let's dig into that a little!
Most common cause, bad charcoal canister. Hmm, *looks them up* HOLY CRAP! 300 bucks?! Okay, it looks like we CAN test the canister that's on there by taking it off, hooking a 9 volt battery up to it and seeing if the valve opens/closes. Well.. taking it off is going to be a bitch so let's skip that for now...
Second most common cause.. Gas cap?? -.- are you kidding me? I go out, inspect the gas cap. As I take it off I hear that nice satisfying "hissssss" of the fumes escaping, or wait.. is it sucking air in? At any rate the seal on the gas cap looks great, the filler neck looks great. Does not appear to be a vacuum leak because of that nice satisfying hiss... Am I wrong to assume that? Should I order the $20 gas cap and just try it out even though the old one looks great?
I inspected every hose I can and cannot seem to find anything cracked/split/installed wrong. I can install the old plugs and see if the light stays off, that would tell me that the new, correct plugs are somehow indicating a problem somewhere else? That was going to be my next step.
Anyone else think it could just be one hell of a coincidence that right after new plugs, my EVAP system is starting to fail, and that is really has nothing to do with the new plugs? Possibly I messed up the hoses when I took the air box and a few other hoses off to install the new plugs? I was sure I got them all back on where they go... There isn't very many.
I know I can go in for a smoke test but first thought that I would swing by here and see if anyone has any ideas. Thank you for the time to read this guys, let me know what you think!
06-01-2014, 06:04 AM
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I have been reading lately that a bad VSV might be causing this too. It is a $50 part and I think it is this little guy pictured. Anyone know of a way to test this? Or should I just blow the $50 and hope for the best?
Last edited by Timdj112; 06-01-2014 at 06:12 AM.
06-04-2014, 06:12 PM
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Doing some digging on my own, since no one seems too keen on throwing any advice at me, I have checked for leaks via a smoke machine (Nothing found) pulled and bench tested all 3 of the VSV (2 under the hood and one next to the canister).. Am I left with replacing the canister in hopes that it stops the codes from coming back? The most recent time they came back on it was only 2 codes (p0442 and p0446) p0441 seems to have disappeared for now if it helps anyone.
Any write ups to removing or bench testing the canister on a 2004 3.4L? I can't seem to find anything. (Getting it out shouldn't be an issue, the bench testing would be very helpful though!)
Any write ups to removing or bench testing the canister on a 2004 3.4L? I can't seem to find anything. (Getting it out shouldn't be an issue, the bench testing would be very helpful though!)
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