mjwalfredo

So the automatic transmission on my 4Runner hasn't been shifting very smoothly for quite some time now but today it actually slipped just a little bit when shifting into overdrive.

Another thing I have noticed is that it won't shift out of 2nd gear until the motor has warmed up quite a bit. I knew it was supposed to stay out of overdrive until the motor reaches a certain temp but does the ECM keep the tranny in second until a certain temp is reached as well?

I took a picture of the the paper towel I used to clean the dipstick. The fluid level is perfect but the dipstick left black marks where it touched the paper towel... What do ya'll think, is that sign of impending doom on my transmission? I plan on calling the shop tomorrow either way.

02_Limited

I think that your truck needs to be warmed up a certain amount before it will let out of 2nd gear. My 2002 does this all the time when I let the car sit overnight. I'll notice that until the coolant gauge on the left side of the instrument panel is at least past the lowest hash mark (the fat line next to the "L"), at lower speeds at least (0-35/40 MPH), my transmission won't come out of 2nd.

Try warming up your engine just a little bit before you head off after a cold start. I'm talking like 1-2 minutes. This gets the heat going quicker, etc etc etc, but remember - letting your truck sit and warm up for much longer than that can potentially do more harm than good. The reason for this is that you may think your car is fully warmed up and ready to go after you let it idle for a while, but in reality, only half of the mechanical components are warmed up - the engine is, but the drive train parts are not. That's why the ECT keeps the truck in higher RPM's following a cold start. It not only heats up the engine and cooling systems quicker, but it also gets transmission and differential fluids up to optimal operating temperatures too.

Here's how I break cold starts up:

1. Cold start - no warm up before driving off - not bad, per se, but I avoid doing this

2. Cold start - 1 or 2 minute warm up before driving off- lets engine warm a bit, RPM's fall slighly closer to warm idle (~600 RPM) -

3. Cold start - 10 minute warm up - engine will probably settle to normal (warm start) RPM before driving off - in turn, the transmission/ differential fluids have received no heat (through friction and high RPM's that occur during a cold start"

fireman1559

when was the last time you replaced the fluid and filter? if over 75,000 miles ago then it needs to be changed filter aswell

mt_goat

You're checking the ATF level with the engine running right?

skjos

During my extensive yotatech searches this is what I learned for checking ATF levels.

1) Go for a nice 15 mile drive, this should get your ATF properly heated.
2) Stop and put the 4runner in Park with the e-brake on and engine running
3) Pop the hood and grab a shop rag (so you are ready to quickly check the level)
4) Push on the brake and run the shifter through each position stopping 2 seconds in each position on the way down, and then again on the way back up to park.
5) Pull out your dip stick and wipe it off
6) Reinsert the dip stick all the way
7) Pull the dip stick out and read the level, it should be between the hot marks

I've heard the distance between the low hot mark and the high hot mark is equivalent to only 4oz of ATF, but I have not confirmed this.

Experts out there, please correct me if I have the sequence wrong.
Thanks

mjwalfredo

02Limited, thanks for the info on the cold shifting. I have read many times that the tranny definitely will not shift into O/D when cold but I wasn't sure about 3rd gear. Good to know that my transmission is at least behaving normally in that respect. I am living south of Boston right now so I guess the COOOOLD weather makes the warm up time much longer than I am used to.

To everyone else, thanks for the tips on the tranny fluid. A while back my tranny started shifting kinda hard, I'm talking maybe 2 years ago. I dropped the pan, cleaned the magnets and put in a new filter. After I did that, I just changed the tranny fluid with Dex/Merc (usually Valvoline Maxlife) ATF fluid every time I changed the motor oil. I probably did 6-7 drain and fills on the fluid in total.

I stopped doing the drain and fill cycle about 4 months ago I guess. I figured the fluid was a good as it was gonna get without doing a flush. Today I checked the fluid after a 30 minute drive. I parked on a level surface, ran the shifter through all the settings two times and and checked with the motor running in park. I am sure it is full of fluid, it was right at the top mark for the hot range.

I guess I started this thread because I was curious if the black marks on the paper towel was normal or a sign of transmission wear. Since I have drained and filled so many times in the recent past, I am going to guess that even a little bit of dark stuff in the fluid is not a good sign at all.

Thanks for reading guys.

mjwalfredo

Oh, and skjos, the only thing you left out was to make sure that you are parked on a flat and level surface before checking.

02_Limited

No problem, glad I can help. For a minute I was expecting my reasoning to be a moot point since your location says SC, but knowing that you're in Boston seals the deal. Hopefully your fluid was just a little dirty. You said you would change the fluid every oil change, how frequently would you do this? Maybe you're used to seeing the "like new" condition of fresh transmission oil from changing it so often?

JC_ez

About a year ago, I added an external transmission cooler, and therefore I had to top off the transmission fluid as well. I followed the same instructions as above (which should be the correct way), but I couldn't get a good reading for some reason. Here is why:

1) The first problem I had was that I didn't know how hard to drive the truck before checking the transmission fluid. Some instructions say to drive hard, some say to drive normally in the city, and some say to drive on the highway. I'm guessing that depending on how you 'warm up' your fluid, you are going to get different reading results (not consistent)

2) The second problem I had was that the 4Runner's transmission dip stuck has like 10 bends in it. It is really hard to pull and re-insert.

3) It seems like the fluid gets sloshed around and therefore doesn't leave a clean line on the stick to judge fluid level. Usually I got a slosh of fluid all over the stick and a faint diagonal/distorted line which I just assumed to be the correct line to use.

4) I tried around 3 or 4 times to judge the fluid while hot, but was never confident with the readings I got. I later tested the fluid cold with the engine off using the low and high marks for cold fluid and made sure it was in the middle. With the engine off and the fluid cool, the fluid formed a very distinctive line on the dip stick that was easy to see.

Since Toyota added a low and high range for COLD fluid, why can't we just test it cold considering the more consistent results that can be obtained?

skjos

1)... I've heard may different ways to heat the fluid, I typically just do moderate driving (no punching it through the gears, no highway driving, no major hills, no towing, etc).
2) It does suck
3) I use the first spot where the fluid goes all the way across the stick, but I do have a lot of fluid running up the sides, again it sucks
4) I've actually never checked it cold, I'll have to give that a shot - it wuld be nice to have a distinctive line.

Here are the reasons why I think the cold range may not be as accurate as the hot range, take it for what it's worth, some of them are pretty cheesy:

1) Everyone on yotatech says to check it when it's hot
2) The hot range is the temperature at which the ATF is being used, yes it lubricates during warm-up, but the hot range is where the majority of driving is being done, so it is best to check it there.
3) The thermal expansion rate between various ATF's may not be consistant, therefore it best to check them when they are in the use/hot range
4) The temperature at which your transmission runs my be different than others, so the exansion of the fluid my be different based on your different running temperature (I'm pulling at straws on that one)
5) The ATF gods want to make checking the level very subjective

mkgarrison5

how many miles on the tranny??

mjwalfredo

I've got 230k on the tranny.
Btw, I drained less than 1/4 a quart out yesterday since the fluid was right at the high mark for hot when I checked. That seems to have helped a little bit actually. I wonder if I have a foaming/frothing problem... Because it shifts great when cold but once the transmission gets up to operating temp I start to feel the problems with it.

I am tempted to flush it myself but I know the possible consequences so I am hesitant. I also don't want spend the money on high priced ATF fluid if it ends up dying from the flush a few weeks later.

okie81

Does the fluid smell burnt?

I've always heard that if you let your vehicle warm up in neutral instead of park, it warms the tranny faster. That may just be an urban myth though.

mkgarrison5

keep checking and when you do flush i would go with atleast the maxlife bc you never know it could just need changing.. the dino atf's really need to be drained and filled every 10-15k miles. they do not last no where near as long as full syn atf's