Automatic Transmission 3rd Gen
03-02-2003, 05:00 AM
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Automatic Transmission 3rd Gen
My discussion is based on procedures and questions I have related to the late model 4R's with automatic transmissions.
Question: First of all, I believe that the unit I have is the A340F transmission. If I am wrong, please correct me.
The dry fill capacity for this unit is 10.8 quarts. The drain and fill capacity is 2.1 quarts. This means that the torque converter, oil strainer, etc. holds over 8 quarts that can only be completely refreshed by a transfusion or when rebuilding the transmission.
Note: The other model transmission is the A340E and it has lesser fluid capacities --- Dry: 7.6 qts. / Drain & Fill: 1.7 qts.
Note: When changing transmission fluid it is important to have the fluid at about 70-80 degrees F. Also, when replacing the fluid, do not overfill and use the cold fluid line on the dipstick as your gauge.
What I have done in the past with other vehicles is to drain the fluid and replace the filter every 15,000 miles. However, the Toyota does not have a replaceable filter.
Question: I have always had my Toyotas dealer service so I am wondering if there is a screen inside that gets cleaned or is it the oil strainer that gets cleaned?
There are 19 bolts that secure the oil pan. To clean the pan, drain the fluid, remove all the bolts and drop the pan, then remove and inspect the four magnets in the pan. Look for metal or other particles on the magnets or in the pan itself. Replace the clean magnets in the clean pan. Do not reuse the pan gasket. Use a fresh gasket and torque all bolts to 65 INCH lbs. The drain plug gets torqued to 15 ft.lbs.
So, what I specify with my Toyotas is to first drop the pan and clean it and the screen/strainer (?). Then I have the fluid completely replaced via the transfusion process at the dealer.
I know I am obsessive and this is excessive, but I figure with a supercharger or any high performance application that stresses the transmission this is cheap insurance.
Any comments or questions?
Question: First of all, I believe that the unit I have is the A340F transmission. If I am wrong, please correct me.
The dry fill capacity for this unit is 10.8 quarts. The drain and fill capacity is 2.1 quarts. This means that the torque converter, oil strainer, etc. holds over 8 quarts that can only be completely refreshed by a transfusion or when rebuilding the transmission.
Note: The other model transmission is the A340E and it has lesser fluid capacities --- Dry: 7.6 qts. / Drain & Fill: 1.7 qts.
Note: When changing transmission fluid it is important to have the fluid at about 70-80 degrees F. Also, when replacing the fluid, do not overfill and use the cold fluid line on the dipstick as your gauge.
What I have done in the past with other vehicles is to drain the fluid and replace the filter every 15,000 miles. However, the Toyota does not have a replaceable filter.
Question: I have always had my Toyotas dealer service so I am wondering if there is a screen inside that gets cleaned or is it the oil strainer that gets cleaned?
There are 19 bolts that secure the oil pan. To clean the pan, drain the fluid, remove all the bolts and drop the pan, then remove and inspect the four magnets in the pan. Look for metal or other particles on the magnets or in the pan itself. Replace the clean magnets in the clean pan. Do not reuse the pan gasket. Use a fresh gasket and torque all bolts to 65 INCH lbs. The drain plug gets torqued to 15 ft.lbs.
So, what I specify with my Toyotas is to first drop the pan and clean it and the screen/strainer (?). Then I have the fluid completely replaced via the transfusion process at the dealer.
I know I am obsessive and this is excessive, but I figure with a supercharger or any high performance application that stresses the transmission this is cheap insurance.
Any comments or questions?
03-02-2003, 06:44 AM
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After reading all of that I don't know if you are teaching or asking a question.
The transmission holds a total of 15 quarts of fluid. There is a filter and I replace mine every other flush.
http://www.gadgetonline.com/TransFlush.htm
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
The transmission holds a total of 15 quarts of fluid. There is a filter and I replace mine every other flush.
http://www.gadgetonline.com/TransFlush.htm
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
Last edited by Gadget; 03-02-2003 at 06:49 AM.
03-02-2003, 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by Gadget
After reading all of that I don't know if you are teaching or asking a question.
The transmission holds a total of 15 quarts of fluid. There is a filter and I replace mine every other flush.
http://www.gadgetonline.com/TransFlush.htm
After reading all of that I don't know if you are teaching or asking a question.
The transmission holds a total of 15 quarts of fluid. There is a filter and I replace mine every other flush.
http://www.gadgetonline.com/TransFlush.htm
I am sharing information, teaching if you will, and as well as asking a question. I thought that where I was asking a question was clearly defined.
My 2002 FSM states capacities as stated in my original post. Tell me if you know, which transmission do I (we) have in the 2002 4Runner? I am also told by Toyota that there is NO FILTER in the transmission. Why is it then that you have a filter in your transmission?
When you say "flush" do you mean complete fluid change?
I sent you a PM the other day regarding two questions that I have regarding the SC. My first question was regarding a vacuum port near the TB on the SC unit itself. The vacuum line routing instructions show that port to be capped on the '01 - '02. I can't remember my other question right now. Did you get my email?
03-02-2003, 09:08 AM
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Peter-
I have a 98 with I'm pretty sure the same tranny as you. I don't know if it's the a340e or f, I've been trying to figure that out for the past 6 months, but haven't found an answer yet. My tranny takes somewhere between 15-16 quarts for a flush, but I ended up using 20 quarts to make sure I flushed all the old stuff out. Bolted to the valvebody there is a metal screen that is removable and cleanable. I used brake cleaner to clean mine and reused it. I flushed my tranny at 65k miles. In my opinion it was a waste of time dropping the pan, etc. It added at least an hour to the job, there was some fine metal dust on the filter that didn't tell me anything, and I ended up x-threading one of the bolts on the pan.
BTW, I have had the SC on for ~7k miles and I think my tranny is starting to go. Just an FYI.
I have a 98 with I'm pretty sure the same tranny as you. I don't know if it's the a340e or f, I've been trying to figure that out for the past 6 months, but haven't found an answer yet. My tranny takes somewhere between 15-16 quarts for a flush, but I ended up using 20 quarts to make sure I flushed all the old stuff out. Bolted to the valvebody there is a metal screen that is removable and cleanable. I used brake cleaner to clean mine and reused it. I flushed my tranny at 65k miles. In my opinion it was a waste of time dropping the pan, etc. It added at least an hour to the job, there was some fine metal dust on the filter that didn't tell me anything, and I ended up x-threading one of the bolts on the pan.
BTW, I have had the SC on for ~7k miles and I think my tranny is starting to go. Just an FYI.
03-02-2003, 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by ManyMods
Gadget,
I am sharing information, teaching if you will, and as well as asking a question. I thought that where I was asking a question was clearly defined.
My 2002 FSM states capacities as stated in my original post. Tell me if you know, which transmission do I (we) have in the 2002 4Runner? I am also told by Toyota that there is NO FILTER in the transmission. Why is it then that you have a filter in your transmission?
When you say "flush" do you mean complete fluid change?
I sent you a PM the other day regarding two questions that I have regarding the SC. My first question was regarding a vacuum port near the TB on the SC unit itself. The vacuum line routing instructions show that port to be capped on the '01 - '02. I can't remember my other question right now. Did you get my email?
Gadget,
I am sharing information, teaching if you will, and as well as asking a question. I thought that where I was asking a question was clearly defined.
My 2002 FSM states capacities as stated in my original post. Tell me if you know, which transmission do I (we) have in the 2002 4Runner? I am also told by Toyota that there is NO FILTER in the transmission. Why is it then that you have a filter in your transmission?
When you say "flush" do you mean complete fluid change?
I sent you a PM the other day regarding two questions that I have regarding the SC. My first question was regarding a vacuum port near the TB on the SC unit itself. The vacuum line routing instructions show that port to be capped on the '01 - '02. I can't remember my other question right now. Did you get my email?
03-02-2003, 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by FattyCBR
Peter-
I have a 98 with I'm pretty sure the same tranny as you. I don't know if it's the a340e or f, I've been trying to figure that out for the past 6 months, but haven't found an answer yet. My tranny takes somewhere between 15-16 quarts for a flush, but I ended up using 20 quarts to make sure I flushed all the old stuff out. Bolted to the valvebody there is a metal screen that is removable and cleanable. I used brake cleaner to clean mine and reused it. I flushed my tranny at 65k miles. In my opinion it was a waste of time dropping the pan, etc. It added at least an hour to the job, there was some fine metal dust on the filter that didn't tell me anything, and I ended up x-threading one of the bolts on the pan.
BTW, I have had the SC on for ~7k miles and I think my tranny is starting to go. Just an FYI.
Peter-
I have a 98 with I'm pretty sure the same tranny as you. I don't know if it's the a340e or f, I've been trying to figure that out for the past 6 months, but haven't found an answer yet. My tranny takes somewhere between 15-16 quarts for a flush, but I ended up using 20 quarts to make sure I flushed all the old stuff out. Bolted to the valvebody there is a metal screen that is removable and cleanable. I used brake cleaner to clean mine and reused it. I flushed my tranny at 65k miles. In my opinion it was a waste of time dropping the pan, etc. It added at least an hour to the job, there was some fine metal dust on the filter that didn't tell me anything, and I ended up x-threading one of the bolts on the pan.
BTW, I have had the SC on for ~7k miles and I think my tranny is starting to go. Just an FYI.
Thanks for your response.
How can you tell your transmission is starting to fail? Do you service it routinely? Even though I use a race built transmission in my GM car, I know many guys who have beat the snot out of the GM 4L60E tranny, reputed to be a weak unit, with a ton more HP than we are talking about without failure. Something does not sound right here.
I will speak to the dealer to see if I can solve the question of the model # since no one here has come up with the answer yet. It really should not be that difficult.
To qualify the amount of fluid to be used in a dry fill, I would not include an external oil cooler, which probably holds one quart. I don't know why you and Gadget are claiming your transmissions hold more fluid, although I am not doubting you. Possibly, the dry fill capacity does not include the TC, which could hold at least 4 quarts, as well as the fluid held in the cooler lines or radiator cooler tank. I must admit that 10 quarts seems like very little for an automatic transmission when about 15-16 quarts is about normal for most transmissions I have had.
If there _is_ a replaceable filter in the transmission, then it should be no problem for me to get a PN for it. I will do this tomorrow when I find out what model tranny I have. The oil strainer in the A340E has three bolts and several gaskets. The oil strainer in the A340F has four bolts and several gaskets as well as four connectors, one from each shift solenoid valve. I stand corrected on the gasket issue. Toyota uses an FIPG gasket material (PN 08826-00090, THREE BOND 1281 or equivalent) instead of a hard gasket. Gadget recommends something "made by Permatex called “Right Stuff” and comes in a cheese whiz can."
As for Gadget's claim that changing the fluid on a tranny that has some contaminants in it due to pending failure will cause the tranny to immediately fail, that is just not blanketly true. I have witnessed cases to the contrary on several occasions; however, if you find metal or non metalic particles in your tranny, it is time to tear it down and see what is starting to fail. Of course, if you feel your TC start to fail, STOP DRIVING at once before your entire tranny grenades. A TC failure is usually preceded by a violent shuttering that stops when you let off the gas.
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03-02-2003, 11:32 AM
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I'll try and answer all your questions.
Here's why I think my tranny's going out (a bit long). In high school my dad had a Ram 250 with a 12v Cummins and autotranny. Well the tranny started to go out. When on the highway it wouldn't go into 4th gear. If it did make it into 4th gear sometimes it would just downshift while cruising down the road and holding the gas steady. I've noticed twice in the past week that it has gone from 4th to 3rd while I was maintaining ~50-55mph and going up a tiny incline. So I think that may be an indication that it's going out. We'll see if it continues to go out and how it's handled by the warranty.
In the past I have not serviced my truck regularly, in fact I'd say I only started to become conscientious about it 35k miles ago. At 35-40k miles I had the 30k mile service done from soup to nuts, I assume that includes tranny flush, but I'm not sure. Then at 65k I did the full flush like I already described. I got the 15-16 quarts number from my owners manual so that's how I decided how many quarts to buy for the change. I know my strainer doesn't have any connectors for solenoids, but if you can post a scan of a diagram I can double check from memory what my screen looked like. I don't remember any gaskets on the screen/filter, it was just like an elongated oil pick-up with a large hole on top instead of a tube that mated with the VB.
Here's why I think my tranny's going out (a bit long). In high school my dad had a Ram 250 with a 12v Cummins and autotranny. Well the tranny started to go out. When on the highway it wouldn't go into 4th gear. If it did make it into 4th gear sometimes it would just downshift while cruising down the road and holding the gas steady. I've noticed twice in the past week that it has gone from 4th to 3rd while I was maintaining ~50-55mph and going up a tiny incline. So I think that may be an indication that it's going out. We'll see if it continues to go out and how it's handled by the warranty.
In the past I have not serviced my truck regularly, in fact I'd say I only started to become conscientious about it 35k miles ago. At 35-40k miles I had the 30k mile service done from soup to nuts, I assume that includes tranny flush, but I'm not sure. Then at 65k I did the full flush like I already described. I got the 15-16 quarts number from my owners manual so that's how I decided how many quarts to buy for the change. I know my strainer doesn't have any connectors for solenoids, but if you can post a scan of a diagram I can double check from memory what my screen looked like. I don't remember any gaskets on the screen/filter, it was just like an elongated oil pick-up with a large hole on top instead of a tube that mated with the VB.
02-21-2005, 07:54 PM
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I have a sort of related question...
I pulled my dipstick today to check my tranny oil level and I can't get the darn thing back in all the way. It was dark when I pulled it out and I didn't notice the safety on the dipstick so I wiggled it a little and then realized the safety was preventing it from coming out. When I finally pulled the dip stick it had a few slight twists in it and it wouldn't go back in all the way. I straightened the twists and tried again but still I could only get it past the first few bends in the tube. Then I noticed a slight bend at the tip of the dip stick so I flattenned that out and tried again also to no avail.
I was wondering if someone can tell me if in fact the twists are supposed to be ther or not and same for the bend at the tip. If someone an post a picture or maybe give me some measurements as far as how far up from the tip the twist needs to be and about how much of a twist it should be etc. Otherwise I guess I'll buy a new dipstick or something. As is now my dipstick is completely flat...
Also, is the tranny filled through the dipstick tube or elsewhere? I glanced through the owners manual but didn't find any specific info.
I pulled my dipstick today to check my tranny oil level and I can't get the darn thing back in all the way. It was dark when I pulled it out and I didn't notice the safety on the dipstick so I wiggled it a little and then realized the safety was preventing it from coming out. When I finally pulled the dip stick it had a few slight twists in it and it wouldn't go back in all the way. I straightened the twists and tried again but still I could only get it past the first few bends in the tube. Then I noticed a slight bend at the tip of the dip stick so I flattenned that out and tried again also to no avail.
I was wondering if someone can tell me if in fact the twists are supposed to be ther or not and same for the bend at the tip. If someone an post a picture or maybe give me some measurements as far as how far up from the tip the twist needs to be and about how much of a twist it should be etc. Otherwise I guess I'll buy a new dipstick or something. As is now my dipstick is completely flat...
Also, is the tranny filled through the dipstick tube or elsewhere? I glanced through the owners manual but didn't find any specific info.
02-21-2005, 08:51 PM
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I can get it past the first few bends consistantly but the last one is not budging. I stil have about 6-8" of exposed dipstick to go...
Any tips? Is the dipstick perfectly straight or are there kinks in it?
Any tips? Is the dipstick perfectly straight or are there kinks in it?
02-21-2005, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ManyMods
Gadget,
I am sharing information, teaching if you will, and as well as asking a question. I thought that where I was asking a question was clearly defined.
I am sharing information, teaching if you will, and as well as asking a question. I thought that where I was asking a question was clearly defined.
02-22-2005, 03:05 AM
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Here is the trick for the tranny dip stick.
Before removing, take note of the position of the handle. When you put it back in you want it orinated in the exact same position.
Now when you go to put it in, insert it as far as it will go without force. Now grab it about 2" above the tube and twist/turn and move it back and forth to get it over what ever it is hanging up on. There is a joint in the tube and the dipstick will hang up on this joint everytime. But if you do the 2" thing and move it in and out and twist and turn it you will get past all the obsticals and all the way in without to much trouble.
Yes, those bends and twists are supposed to be in the dip stick. Have fun putting it in now...
Gadget
Before removing, take note of the position of the handle. When you put it back in you want it orinated in the exact same position.
Now when you go to put it in, insert it as far as it will go without force. Now grab it about 2" above the tube and twist/turn and move it back and forth to get it over what ever it is hanging up on. There is a joint in the tube and the dipstick will hang up on this joint everytime. But if you do the 2" thing and move it in and out and twist and turn it you will get past all the obsticals and all the way in without to much trouble.
Yes, those bends and twists are supposed to be in the dip stick. Have fun putting it in now...
Gadget
02-22-2005, 04:31 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by Gadget
Yes, those bends and twists are supposed to be in the dip stick. Have fun putting it in now...
As he said, you are probably going to have to rebend it the way you found it to get it to slide in properly again.
Worst case you can get a new one or get one from a junkyard that has the proper bends.
Mine has always been tough as well, you have to fiddle with it a bit to get it to go back in.
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