02yoyo

Ok, just to start, I'm not an environmental whacko, nor to I hate environmental whackos. To each his own. I'm all for being kind to the environment which in my opinion includes not pouring out loads of C02 from my not so environmentally friendly 02 4runner if I can keep from it.

My question is, everyone on here modifies their trucks to increase their off road prowess (which I'm all for as well), but I would like to know if you could really trick out a 4runner to get something in the 30 to 35, or even higher mpg range. This would help the environment, and (more importantly) help ease the pain in our wallets.

Everyone knows that the technology to build a powerful engine that gets double or triple the amount of mpg has been available for a long time. Many speculate that the big oil companies get together with the big car companies once a year, or whatever, and agree on what MPG their cars and trucks will get. In doing this they add loads of added drag on the engine to make it "friendly". Emissions standards are just one example.

I'm thinking it's all a sham and that if you were allowed to rip off all of the stuff that is supposed to make things "cleaner", but actually just chokes the engine, you could get much better gas mileage. Better gas mileage would mean less fuel consumed, which would in turn mean less pollution. I am aware that you would need to do more than just remove the "pollution control" mechanics to increase the MPG, but that's the first place you would start.

It just irritates me that all the damn politicians act like we, the public, are causing Global Warming (If it's even happening at all) because we are greedy consumerists when in my opinion it's the government and greedy corporations, that might as well be the government, that are causing it. (not trying to turn this into a political discussion)

To sum this all up, wouldn't it be cool to have a fully off road capable 4runner or Taco that also gets 35, 40, or even 50 miles to the gallon? Do you think it is possible now to accomplish this with some basic, or even not so basic, modifications to the engine? Even if it cost $5,000 or $10,000 to do it. How many people on this site have spent that much on their rigs for other purposes. If you could drop $5,000 in the engine and get 35mpg you it would pay for itself in no time.

Thoughts?

TOYOTA 1

if my yota's had the same power! and got 50 mpg. i would jump on it like flys on poo!

p.s are goverment sux!

norcalsvx

maybe a vw diesel swap

TOYOTA 1

hey. i said i wanted same amount of power not less lol. jk

loudboy

There are a couple of ways to get better milage, but there are also tradeoffs for each.

Smaller engine(duh) - but no one wants that

Diesel engine - diesel swaps into toyotas can be done(anything can be, for the $$). A good diesel swap with a 1kz-te engine can get upwards of 30mpg. Problem is, the EPA squashed the diesel importers because our stupid government and regulatory bodies are living in the '70s.

Hybrid-ification - would take a ton of money, add extra weight, be a biatch to keep from breaking in wheeling/mud situations, but could return an increase in MPG (might even do good on the trail, were the high torque electric motors might help, and the periods of engine idle would keep the batteries charged)

The super-badass-awesome-wanna-do-it-now option - http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10...rid-hummer-60/

that last one would be sooooooo awesome, but I cant even imagine how much it must cost. Might be worth it if putting together an awesome, all out, long term vehicle.

those are my thoughts, anyone want to add more/correct me?

irish80prf

heck yeah 35-50 mpg and it's a yota it wouldn't get any better.

p.p.s i agree our government is in a bad way.

MadCityRich

There are a few fundamental issues as it relates to 4Runners:
1) They are heavy
2) They have bad aerodynamics
3) Off-roading will offer inherently bad gas mileage.

A diesel swap is the best bet to boost efficiency. But fundamentally, we are working with internal combustion, which is only about 15 percent efficient to the wheels (a bit better with diesel). When you factor in the weight, you simply can't get something for nothing. Accelerating a heavy and unaerodynamic vehicle takes a lot of energy.

Smaller engines and lighter vehicles are the basic way to better fuel economy. Most of the engine development in the last 20 years has been about getting more power out of a given engine displacement. The same technology could be applied in the reverse direction. But if people want heavy and powerful vehicles there's not that much that can be done with the basic internal combustion engine.

MadCityRich

Tofer

i tend to disagree. usually i get the same if not BETTER gas mileage while wheeling. because to the lower gearing i am not floored all the time

cackalak han

http://www.saeenergy.com/

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/...d-messiah.html

cackalak han

How can you be getting 18-20MPG off-road? I get 10-12, maybe. Longer idles, lots of stop & go = decreased MPG's.

Tofer

i never see 18-20 mpg, its usually in the 13-15 range.

Man4God

I think it has been proven that big V8s can get good fuel economy when in cruseing conditions and that is about it. For wheeling, diesel is your only option. Electric, maybe. Lots of engineering involved in that.

Our government is in bed with oil companies too. Not that it matters.

psraff

I hope I don't get flamed too bad on this one because I can't find the docs to back this up with.... But as much as I'm for "alternitive energy" (sun, wind, waves,) I remember getting info regarding the "biofuels" (corn)....

Yes, it may burn cleaner in the end, but if you take into account what it takes to CREATE the Ethanal it's actually WORSE for the enviroment.
Starting with the farms, which use pesticides to grow the crop, the farm equipment used to maintain, harvest, and transport the crop. And then more trucks to transport the crop to refineries. Once it’s there it takes more energy to produce the Ethanol then it does turning fossil fuels into gas.
I even heard that if it wasn’t for the government subsidizing major $$$ the cost of making Ethanol would be so high that no one could afford to buy it. Trust me when I tell you this, if you knew how much natural gas is used every day at an oil refinery you would fill your shorts! And I’ve been told it takes even more to make Ethanol.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for advancement and I care about this earth more then a lot of other people out there. But getting away from fossil fuels on a large scale isn't fast and cheap. People have expected the oil companies and the government to step up and come up with the next generation of energy. Oil companies are just that "Oil Companies". If they choose to diversify and look into other areas, great! I love to see that!!! But you also need to look at your local power companies. They can put up wind turbines, tidal bueys, current turbines, solor panels as well. Change has to start with the little guy and move upward. In the next few years I bet there will be great steps in the technology behind those ideas and the cost and rewards will be more balanced.

Ok... let the flaming begin (I'm sure glad I'm out of town for the next few days... LOL) Really though, if someone has the data on anything above I would love to see it again.

89silverpu

So does your english hahahahaha *our* not are

cackalak han

Yeah, there will always be side effects to everything. Even right now, there is a big controversy on what ethynol is doing to corn prices, which effects live stock farmers greatly. We could go on about this subject, but for the sake of keeping on topic, I merely posted that link, because it just answered the question at hand (MPG issue).

Whitey13

This thread delivers

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=02yoyo;50805573]Ok, not pouring out loads of C02 from my not so environmentally friendly 02 4runner if I can keep from it. QUOTE]

I'm a sucker for details CO2 (Carbon dioxide)is what plant take in CO (Cardon monoxide) is bad as is the NOx's.

I saw a bit a while bad that a group of guys at MIT converted an old mail jeep to run on hydrogen, combustion. Not like like stipping electrons like the car manufactors a trying to do.

To sum it up, you could get Hydrogen from water burn it (also called oxygenate it) to produce water at the exhaust. I think the fuel cells were the limiting factor. Oh and modify your/our engines to do this. Like propane but different.

Maybe one day. After all the oil is gone this will be rediscovered

mastacox

Only a diesel engine swap would net you anything close to 30 mpg, probably more like 25 depending on conditions.

Oh really? Could you please enlighten us and say what technology that might be? Perhaps all of these people that "know" this don't really know anything?

This is 100%, Grade-A bullsh** conspiracy theory. Engines perform like they do from CONSUMER DEMAND. People in this country like gizmos and widgets, fun to drive, fast acceleration, and good looks. This basically equates to a high-horsepower heavy vehicle. Your 4Runner will never get anywhere close to 30 or 40 miles per gallon because it weights at least 4000 pounds, not because your engine has been purposely de-tuned.

The single biggest driver in a vehicle's miles-per-gallon is its weight. Period. It's a miracle cars today get the kind of mileage they do, considering the horespower output in engines on today's market. If you want 50 mpg, buy a motorcycle.

The emissions control "junk" on your engine actually has a negligeble effect on its overall performance. Sure you might gain a little here or there by removing the muffler or hollowing the catalytic converter, but you trade off a few horsepower for worse emissions and more noise. The federal regulations aren't there to reduce horsepower, they're there because there are millions of cars on the road and smog is a real problem in congested areas such as L.A.

Impossible. Period.

Off-road vehicles weight a lot, and are high off the ground so they have sucky aerodynamics. Anything is in a general sense of the term possible, but what you're asking for cannot be done for anything close to $5000 or even $50,000.

TOYOTA 1

thanks for the spell check! where were you when i needed you?

our goverment sucks! did i get it right that time?

psraff

Amen Mastacox!

I don't like ranting over too many things, but personally I LOVE my 4Runner, the weight of it, the MPG it gets, so on so on....

I want a heavy truck because there is QUALITY behind it. You feel it when you get into it, drive it, 4Wheel it. If I wanted a 2000 lbs auto to drive I would buy a Geo (yes, I know they don't make them anymore but you get the idea). But if you take that off road I hope you've got a welder in your trunk because you're going to need it to piece it back together.

As for the MPG, I get at least 250 Miles every week. And that's with the new tires and wheels. I see trucks around here that cost twice as much to fill up every week as it does for me. And I'm paying $3.79 a gallon now. That's about $47 a week I spend in gas.

I love my 4Runner for what it is. The good, the bad, and everything in between. You can't have the best of both worlds... You just can't do it unless you want to build a rig from the ground up and you have unlimited $$$ behind you (a rig that's 90% cabon fiber would be a good start).