freeflyer

Great site guys! I bought my 95 4x4 Runner in 98 with 39k miles on it and loved it ever since. But lately I’ve been having problems and I wanted to get opinions.

First I notice a rough idle on cold starts. It would clear up after about 2 minutes. Then I notice coolant leaking from behind the engine on the drivers side. I add coolant and it would stop leaking for about a week then start leaking again(about a pint when shut down). Went through this occasional leaking for about two months.

Now it’s running like crap. Has a severe miss at all throttle positions. I brought it to the dealer and he said the following:

Replace plugs, rotor, cap and wires
Replace knock sensor wire
Replace fuel filter
Replace timing belts
Clean fuel injectors
Clean Throttle body

He said if that does not clear it up he would have to do the following:

Replace head gaskets
Check head for cracks
Check Block for cracks
Replace thermostat

I don’t get this! As a dealer mechanic, he should be able to pinpoint a blown head gasket from the start, right? Is he trying to sell me unnecessary work? After he explained all this to me, he started telling me I may need a new engine.

Does this sound right to you guys?

Thanks, Bruce

KevyWevy

well i was leaking coolant as well at about 95k. it turns out i needed a new pupmp and thermostat. and while they were at it, i also had them do the timing belt, seeing how they should be replaced at 90k. i never had any rough idleing though. they should at least be able to pinpoint the leak right a way. i would either call another dealer and see what they say or just take it to a non-dealer mechanic and have them find the leak and then go from there.

Mike Murrell

The dealer is trying to do what most dealers do - rid your wallet of money. Anytime someone says, "we'll try this and if that doesn't work, we'll try that", it's time to find someone else.

You most likely have a single problem causing the rough idle or miss. Maybe two perhaps, but not a dozen or more as his analysis suggests.

I'll start with the coolant loss first. Go to Auto Zone or other mass-marketer parts place and rent a cooling system pressure tester. The price is about $75.00, but you get it all back when you return the tester. This unit is used to pressure your cooling system. You perform this test with the engine stone cold and parked on a level surface.

Radiator cap is removed and pressure tester connected to filler neck. Sometimes an adapter is first installed to the radiator filler neck, then the pressure tester itself.

The pressure tester works somewhat like a bicycle pump - you simply start pumping and watch the pressure build up on the gauge.

If you have a 20 lbs. radiator cap, you back off about 10% to maybe 17-18 lbs. Pump up no higher than 17-18 lbs if you have a 20 lb. cap. The general rule is cap pressure minus 10%. The reason is too much pressure can conceivably damage a water pump seal.

In the case of my 20 lb. cap example, we pump to 17-18 pounds, then start looking for leaks. If you have one, you'll either see it from above, or see coolant on the ground below where it's dripping to. Follow the trail back to the source. If the system is externally tight, you should be able to hold 17-18 lbs. of pressure for at least 15 mins with no leaks. Some guys like to hold it for 20 mins. If you by chance have an under-carriage shroud, remove it first before you start this test in order to allow leaking coolant to find it's way to the ground.

There is no more sure way to detect external coolant leaks than using a cooling system pressure tester.

If you find no external leak, then there's a chance you have a leaking head gasket. Do you see coolant/water in your oil? You may have to drain the oil to tell for sure. Sometimes the dipstick check isn't enough, especially in the early phases of a leaking head gasket. If you have a head gasket leak you also have a reduction in cooling system pressure which means your engine is operating at a higher temp. level. Lots of asian vehicles unfortunately do not have very good temp gauges. Some go to and stay at the same level whether it's 110 or 10 outside.

Try checking out your coolant situation first. No sense in pouring $$ into tuning items if you have a head gasket replacement forthcoming. I may stand corrected, but I seem to recall that Toyota had a fair amt. of head gasket issues with mid-90's vehicles.

The following URL shows what most cooling system pressure testers look like:

http://www2.northerntool.com/product/200215424/

Fahrenheit 451

If its a v6 and built in about the first half of the year, I can pretty well guarantee that it has bad headgaskets and is covered under a Toyota service campaign that covers the costs of replacing the headgaskets. Sounds like this guy is either a dope or is just plain trying to stick it to you.
I'm sure somebody here can come up with the TSB # to get you checked out as well as get you started on getting the head work done through Toyota. It might not be a bad idea to take it to a different dealership if you can. Sounds like this place might not be so reputable since the headgasket issue is widely known.
Keep in mind as well that if the headgasket issue lead to further damage of the engine they have even replaced complete engines as a result. They'll still try to stick it to you by getting you to do as much extra work as possible around it. Sort of why it is a "service campaign" and not a recall like it should have been. I would further suggest you keep all your records and receipts to date as it may come in handy to show to Toyota that you were working with the dealer trying to get it taken care of before major damage was done.

freeflyer

Thanks for the input guys. I did do a coolant pressure test when I notice the leak. I held 20lbs for about 15 mins and could not make it leak. Is it possible take a head gasket will leak only sometimes? I crawled under once when it was leaking and it seemed to me coolant was coming from between the head and block, but I couldn't be sure.

As for the manufacture date on the unit, the label says 12-94. The dealer says the recall/campaign did not effect this unit.

What about a compression test? Would this pinpoint a faulty head gasket?

anthony1

iTrader: (1)

I have a 95 with Jan date and it also not under the recall campaign. so far so good...112k.

Mike Murrell

Here's the ALLDATA TSBs for a '95 4-Runner 4x2

http://www.alldata.com/TSB/60/95600750.html

Look at item SSCV06 - head gasket replacement.

I wonder if any dealers have been yanking chains?

Gee.....that never happened