jacksonpt

Has anyone taken a 3rd gen IFS (standard travel, not a long travel conversion) though the harder blues or black trails at paragon? How did you make out? Any pics?

I'm trying to decide how much wheeling money to put into an IFS rig.

BeaterToyota

I'm sure someone with a 3rd gen will respond, but here is my experience. At EC4RJ this last time there were a few 3rd gen 4Runners and a lot of Tacomas. Some of us ran the hardest blue trails, and also one of the easiest blacks. The only damage I recall was body damage.

I've run my IFS '88 pickup on the hardest blues at Paragon several times, and on the harder blues at Rausch Creek 2 0r 3 times. I'm running Frank's (elripster's) 1.5" ball joint spacers and have never had any front end problems.

If you have a rear locker and low gears you can creep along and do alright, despite having IFS.

Here is an album of pics from EC4RJ on the medium to hard blues at Paragon. You can get an idea how they compare to what you usually wheel. Click here.

shazaam

you can do black 1's with a good spotter, and full armor underneath. I was only locked in the rear, so I took a lot of hits going up stuff. Bratick spotted for me and I made it through. There was another 3rd gen from NY, and he got stuck, and had to be yanked back out of the trail. Not a pretty site.
I honestly beleive with 35s, and dual lockers, and low gears, I should be able to hit black 1's pretty easily, and maybe some black two's.
honestly the only difference between me and the SA older trucks was that they had larger tires and were able to roll right over stuff, while I had to hit, and bump my way through it.
I didn't get any body damage there, I got it in some private land in Pa. There was no cut trail, and I was following two buggies who turned over every rock as they went by. So I was climbing loose rock, it wasn't pretty.

sschaefer3

Very good, you are learning.

jacksonpt

I'm getting there. Got a long way to go yet though. Got some good info from Jeff though about the potential dangers of breaking axles with a locked front.

Still weighing my options, but locking/gearing my rig is looking like a better and better option.

sschaefer3

Jeff used to break axles because he used way too much skinny pedal. I don't think he would do that anymore.

I have never broke anything, because with the crawler, gears and lockers, everything is controlled.

sschaefer3

I was actually refering to Sha-Zam, but you are getting there as well. Both of you are. If it was not so far away, I would come and wheel with you, but just like chances you'll ever come here are slim, chances I'll ever make it there are as well.

jacksonpt

well actually... my father lives in Tuscon, and we are thinking about coming out to visit for Thanksgiving. It's not certain yet, but we are talking about it.

sschaefer3

There is an AWSOME trail in Tucson. As you are now I'll have to pull you through alot of it, but with the 4.88's and lockers, you'll spank it.

shazaam

yeah but even with locked front and 35"s I'll be able to clear black 1s . maybe 2s .. to be honest I haven't even seen a black 2 trail. The 1's were scary enough. but I still feel that if I take the money and go straight to SA, in the long run I'll be better off and save money

Flygtenstein

I have never been, but I like the point being made.

Reality is those trails need 35's or more and I personally would not run more than 35's on the newer rigs IFS.

What held Schaefer up last year in Colorado? Clearance. That problem is now solved. I cannot speak for Steve, but I have not yet been in a situation where IFS was what held me back from considering a line or finishing an obstacle. So far I have lots of Moab, lots of Colorado, lots of Wisconsin and Martinez under my belt.

I think a body would be more of an impediment than IFS when it is all locked and crawler.

Fever

There are a few guys from our club www.keystonekrawlers.com which have done those trails. I must say they all have swiched to SAS now. I believe I'm the only one left with IFS. I will not do upper blues or blacks. I broke enough on blues at Rausch Creek. I broke the IFS lift blocks (Trailmaster) They are cast. I also bent the bejesous out of my second crossmember. Not to mention how low that darn transfercase hangs. Guess what I'm saying is good luck if you are going to do those trails and make sure you are taking a truck along to drag you out.

BruceTS

On a 3rd gen 4Runner, the IFS isn't the main problem. Like already mentioned, lockers and the addition of a Marlin crawl box (if you can wait, they are working on a 10 degree clocked version, to give more t-case clearance). If you run a crawl box, re-gearing isn't needed, most of the really hardcore group I know, have all gone back to 4.10's because they kept breaking. I've seen them go from 5.29 then down to 4.88, finally they said we don't need them with dual t-cases, back to stock, problem solved, but then again, they are all running 37's or larger.

Running 35's should be the maximum size, but only if you have dual t-cases, otherwise run 33's, it would be too easy to snap axles. The other problem is breakover clearance, there's 2 crossmembers that hang down underneath, to move them up flush with the frame rails, requires extensive modifications. I will be doing this to my rig very soon. Between 1 1/2" to 2" body lift will give enough clearance to move the transmission up and crossmember flush, then the fuel tank will need to be modified and/or relocated to bring it above the rails. Once this is done, a full belly pan skid plate can be installed, with the clocked t-case it'll be flat, otherwise a small depression will be required for the one corner of the t-case, raising the transmission an 1 1/2", it's still about a 1/2' below the rails. I had it higher, but didn't like the driveshaft angle, so I'll live with the lower t-case, for now..... Then you have the problem with the rear lower control arm mounts hanging up, with the additional gusseting you can make them slide over obstacles easier, but ideally moving them out of harm's way is my ultimate goal.


Even with all these mods the next problem is the body design, too bulky, too top heavy for the more serious stuff. Personally I don't think going SAS at this point will help, unless your willing to take body damage, some of us would rather not.

So back to your original question, since I have never driven those trails, I can't say, but if I lived out there, I'd be running them. well trying