J03LC0LA

Hearing both pros and cons for a turbo for the 3.4 and the bolt on TRD supercharger. Leaning towards the turbo. What's everyone's opinion?

JasonYota

iTrader: (1)

That's pretty vague. What's your goals? Any current mods?

J03LC0LA

Nothin really. Cold air and cat back.

JasonYota

iTrader: (1)

What's your power goals?

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

well the supercharger is a bolt-on factory-optioned upgrade.....
if you're looking for power off the line, like when offroading at low RPMs, then the supercharger is a good idea. if you're looking to race or tow at higher RPMs then the turbo would likely be better.

Texas_Ace

Turbo, all day, every day. Supercharger is a waste of money unless you find it dirt cheap (like free cheap).

I maxed the living heck out of the supercharger to the point it died in 10k miles, yet it still was only putting down the power of a basic ebay turbo setup on low boost.

Anyone that says the "instant power" of a supercharger makes it a better choice has not driven a properly setup turbo.

Properly matched you could easily have a turbo that spools under 2k and makes well over 300whp although with an auto transmission and a high stall converter you would not need to worry about spool before 3k anyways.

The supercharger was not making any worthwhile boost before 2k anyways so the issue of lag is a moot one.

Go for the turbo, the cost is the same or less in most cases and the performance is night and day difference with the turbo coming out WAY ahead.

stagger_lee

I have to agree with Texas Ace, but at the same time is it worth the $ and time to tune and keep it tuned for the gains on this motor? You don't just bolt this stuff on and call it good. My buddy has been dickin around with his turbo setup or 6 months now, missing trips, trail breakdowns, oil leaks and burning oil. He did a full supra swap so again factory stuff, should be straight forward. Supercharger seems like a lot of headache too from what I've seen, with proper injector size and fuel delivery and ECU issues.

It looks like from your profile pic you got a 4runner. What do you want to do? Go fast or just trail and tow? I would love to go fast and long travel mine but I don't think I can get the rear end to keep up with the front without coming into the cab area with shocks/suspension. I want to retain sleeping space. I don't know. I think I would only attempt either if I was a master engine builder/tuner. If not it looks like a pile of $$. I would rather drop $$ on an SAS linked setup. Keep stock power. IMO Love the sound of either though! There's nothing like hearing or feeling a turbo come to boost!

Cheers brother!

Texas_Ace

Once it is properly tuned, it should stay tuned. I never had to retune mine once the tune was set.

Cheap, Quality, easy. Pick 2.

Do I think it is worth it? Dpends on who you are and what you do. If you just use it to get from point A, to point B with a tow trip tossed in a few times a year? Nope, not worth it. It can do all that just fine stock.

If you on the other hand like to enjoy the truck and the drive, heck yeah it is worth it. Changes the truck for a boring soccer mom transporter into something that is actually dun to drive.

Do the turbo right and there is no reason you should have any issues once the initial bugs are worked out. That is unless you start trying to push for more power (sooner or later.....).

In a nut shell I would use the CX racing manifold, that is cheap and bolts right up. Then pick out a good turbo for your power goals bolt it on and run the necessary lines. Hardest part of that is the oil pan tap.

After that you will just need some way to tune it. The easiest and best performance method for ~300whp or so would be a good meth injection kit running 100% methanol like I was doing.

Runs GREAT and the engine/ECU LOVE it. It is also a piece of cake to install and tuning is easy, just a bit time consuming. VERY forgiving as well as being very safe.

If you have access to pure methanol in bulk, this is the easiest and most trouble free way of doing things.

If not then you are looking at a piggyback. I would go with the AEM FIC setup to either control larger stock injectors or a set of extra injectors in a port fueler. Once you get it setup and working right this setup will work good as well, although some meth injection is still highly advisable for octane purposes.

After all of that, you just have to pick what power level you want. Sub 350whp you will get away with a tranny valve body mod and cooler. Above that it would be wise to rebuild the trans with stronger clutches but you could also wait for it to go out before spending the money.

While talking about the trans, a high stall converter is also HIGHLY recommended. Makes lag a non-issue all together unless you run a 800+whp turbo.

Then if you wanted to go for more power ~400whp is about the most I would do without a standalone on a stock block and you would need meth for sure at that power level long term.

Above that you are paving new trails, I have a feeling that properly tuned the stock block can handle somewhere north of ~500whp but no one has done a standalone with a proper setup to find out. Meth injection and a replumed intake manifold would be needed at this point I am pretty sure as well. Possibly cams too.

Really don't know since no one has done it but it will be reaching the flow limit of several stock items at that point.

Far as my truck, it was/is an all around daily driver. Never have and never will be a fan of dedicated rigs that can only do one thing. If I can't daily drive it, I don't want it. It has seen off-road use along with tow duties and mall crawling. Even the occasional drag track meet.

Long term the build plans are a LONG way from where it sits now but they are also being held close to the chest until then.

stagger_lee

Very good points Ace! Thats funny you say "Cheap, Quality, Easy". From Audi days and having owned turbo cars, I always said "Cheap, Fast, Reliable. " Same stuff, but so true.

I can't thank you enough for that info on CX racing manifold. I was looking for years, never found one and kind of gave up, custom was too expensive. You just opened a whole direction for me. I love turbo cars, always have. I have to respectfully recant my earlier statement of "I would rather put $$ into an SAS swap then turbo setup" I want a turbo now, seeing as the manifold was my biggest hang up and $600 for manifold puts this thing in reach! I would probably want to keep it at mid 200's on horsepower. Laundry list just got bigger. Thanks Ace! Cheers!

Texas_Ace

No problem! The CX manifold is pretty new so not surprised you missed it. Need some exhaust work to make it connect to the 4runner exhaust but otherwise bolts up.

Once the turbo is installed you should be able to make ~300whp without any issues as easy as you can make mid 200's.

There is a thread on custom tacos where someone is about to dyno the CX kit to see what it does. might look into that.

Robb235

That same guy is also on Tacoma World, his build thread there is a bit more detailed.

You will most likely have to fabricate a piece after the down pipe to connect the rest of your stock exhaust. Here's a sketch I drew up a few months ago with how I plan to make it happen.



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Texas_Ace

Very possible, not on there myself.

Yes, you will have to fab some pipe at the end of the downpipe but this is not hard any any good exhaust shop should be able to do it. Although personally I would just build a new exhaust while in there with 3" piping to improve flow and performance.

Robb235

Don't forget that you'll also need a flange for the downstream O2 sensor. With adding this section of pipe, you'll also be taking out the stock piece that has that sensor flange.

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Texas_Ace

Thats a piece of cake, not worth worrying about. Any good exhaust shop will fix you right up.

Although if you have a non-cali truck I bet the stock O2 Sensor would work just fine. but have not seen the pictures to know for sure.

Either way I would have a new exhaust made for these reasons, that way everything can be done over. Shops build exhaust systems from scratch all the time, O2 flanges are simple.

I had one built for my 300zx some time back, took them like 30 mins to go from the turbo outlet to rear bumper, all custom with muffler, hangers, O2 sensor and all that jazz. Think it only costs me around $200 as well. Given it was not a high performance exhaust at only 2.5" but that all it needed.

stagger_lee

Thanks for all the info guys. I now have a good buddy that runs a muffler shop so that's taken care of. I will be looking up that tacoma build. Stay tuned. Thanks again! Cheers!

Robb235

Just pointing out that you'll likely need to find the flange beforehand. I forget where I got mine, but it's not that common of a flange that Toyota uses so your typical exhaust shop won't have it laying around. Of course you could just cut out the old flange from the stock pipe and reuse it. Or omit your downstream O2 completely.

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Texas_Ace

While it is a pretty standard narrow-band O2 sensor flange, you are correct it is best to buy your own and bring it to the exhaust shop. If nothing else it will be cheaper.

Same goes for any wideband bungs or v-band connections.

Rowdydudeman

I need to investigate the specs for the 5vz before commenting on this. Personally, my blown lsj powered daily runs like a raped ape. The LNF motor has very very similar characteristics and (stock for stock) performs nearly identical. But after long pulls the supercharger (LSJ motor) suffers from heat-soak faster than the turbo (stock for stock cooling mods), so the turbo pulls a faster trap speed on the strip.

Ace, what kind of timing where you running? Why run 100% meth? What about your injectors, what size were they? Did you upgrade from stock size? what kind of boost were you seeing from that TRD? I must know more...

Texas_Ace

First and foremost GM uses the M90 for all of the supercharged applications I know of. The 5vz on the other hand got the wholly undersized MP-62. It is so dang small it is almost being over-spun in the factory setup and any pulley does overspin it.

It maxes out at around ~300hp and does not like making even that. If we had the M90 instead then it would be very different discussion with the supercharger being on the table.

As it sits, the supercharger is a waste of money IMO.

Without the meth and a 7th injector it was only running ~10 degrees of timing due to knock. With the meth and no 7th it was running max timing the ECU could which was ~24 degrees, more then stock NA which was ~22 degrees.

100% meth because I have easy access to it and it works GREAT. Also allowed me to make well over 100hp over what the stock fuel system could handle all while making more power, safer and working far better then the 7th injector. Plus pure meth is easier to tune and just plain works better in most situations.

Stock fuel system/ECU/engine besides the supercharger and meth kit.

I maxed the living heck out of the supercharger, was only making ~11-12psi on a good day and 275-300whp. It was so overspun it died in 10k miles.

Just not worth it for a 14 second truck when a basic turbo setup will make more power, easier and cheaper on low boost.

The end all lesson from my supercharger setup was it is a waste of money vs a turbo. I chose the wrong setup.

Rowdydudeman

Holy ˟˟˟˟! that's the factory blower (1L displacement) for the LSJ, a TWO LITER MOTOR! with the stock 3.5" pulley it maxes at 12.5-.7 #'s on the LSJ. I can imagine much lower boost (not a bad thing cuz that motor would flow the added volume more easily) of probably 6#'s or so?
Wow, way to suck Toyota. My saturn came with the m62 and a 3.5" pulley, so the blower was spinning approx 11.8k rpm's at the factory redline of 6.5k. 14k is the m62's spinning limit, what size pulley did you drop down to? why didn't you choose a larger blower? Heck, I've got a TVS 1320 (1.3L) with 80's and I'm still well within the safe zone for it with a 3" pulley (have yet to port my the head). what was your IDC getting up to? I figure you were way maxing out those injectors by adding a blower. what did you use to tune the pcm?