wellyman

Hey all:

I've been in a swap for my 93 4runner now for a couple of months now, and a couple of nights ago I started it up. Well, sort of.

Here's what I got: 93 runner 5spd, 2000 Tundra 3.4L, from an auto 2wd. I have an ECU from a 2000 Tundra 3.4L, 5spd 2wd. I have a 4crawler 2" body lift. I did all the re-wiring myself.

Truck started right up, damn near redlined, then died. It would do this over and over. Seemed like a fuel problem to me. Well I broke down, bought a ODB II scanner, went home, wired up the plug to the computer, and tried to read the codes. All I got/get is unable to link error. I know it has power, since it turns on, and there's only 1 wire to the ecu, which I know is write. So that's really a major issue still to this day. Well I then suspected a power problem to the ECU, since I couldn't connect. Well after looking at the EWD's, I decided to install the EFI and C/OPEN relays from the 2000 into the 93, since there's some discrepancy with the two. So, if this is common knowledge, forgive me, as I search as much as possible before posting. After rewiring the relays, it ran fine, but it idled over 2K, even without the throttle on the body. I unded up removing the front TB factory set screw for the idle, and backed out the rear TB factory set screw as far out as possible, and the idle is still 1500K. I unded up bending the throttle cable bracket in so I could attach it, as the cable was way too short.

Well I've put over 200 miles on it, and at two different times, at low speeds, high RPM's, it stalled, spuddered, bucked. It regained power after reving it some. I sort of suspect my FP failing, or that I have to use the 2000 Tundra FP with the motor, and maybe my 93 FP is not sufficient for the 5VZ. Any input here would be appreciated.

My "Check Engine" light is on, and I definitely suspect that there is still something majorly wrong, yet not being able to connect to the ECU with the scanner is frustrating and I'm unsure as to what to start with. Fixing the communication with the ECU would be awesome.

Other issues still are that my shifters are not staying in engaged in 2nd, 4th, and 4wd LOW, as the boots are pulling the shifters back up due to the 2 inch body lift. I know anyone who's done the swap with the 2 inch BL has run across this issue, and I'm wondering how everyone's gone about solving it. Please all chime in here...

4WD indicator won't turn on. I've traced the wiring twice, and all looks good to me. I wonder if the bulb is bad. I'll check the bulb, but wondered if there's something I've overlooked..

Well that's about it. Sorry so long, but I just want to be clear and explain it in as much detail as I can. Thanks to all in advance for replying, and thanks to all of you who've helped me thus far

Scarbro22

So you used a 3.4L off a 2WD and put it on your 4WD? I was asking questions in another thread if that was possible and no one had any responses to that. I know ORS says if its a 4WD truck then get the donor parts from a 4WD truck but i'm interested in seeing if you can be successful otherwise. Hope you get your answers and get this thing sorted out.

alltrac165

1) I'm using my stock 90 FP with no problems
2) My lift kit came with 2" extensions to weld onto the shifters to raise them. I cut my shifters right above the ball socket and welded them in.
3) On my OBD2 connector, I have 4 wires, two are grounds, one is a SHIELDED wire to the ecu, and one is 12+. Also remember there are 3 different protocols so make sure you are using the right scanner. Toyota uses ISO, I'm pretty sure.
4) I'm not 100% sure, but I think you need the 4WD computer to make the indicator light work. I don't know what other differences there are, but my wiring diagram shows the 4WD indicator light wired to the ecu. I've never tried disconnecting that 1 wire to see what happens if it's not connected. If you want I can do that and see if anything changes. It all works right now.

wellyman

Thanks alltrac. That helps alot. I'm in the process of running thru all my wiring to triple check them. I really want to get my code scanner up and working, as I think that will point out all my other issues. ISO protocol? I thought OBD II is OBD II, no? I'll have to check my code scanner, but it just says 96 and newer vehicles I'm pretty sure. I'll shield the ECU signal wire from the connector, but I wouldn't think that would cause the unability to connect. The 4WD indicator is just something I like to have, as I'm just one of those people that like it "stock". I haven't tried hooking up my CC, but other than that, all is working, A/C, heat, etc. Thanks for the info, and don't worry about unhooking your indicator from the ECU right now, as that's really a minor issue at this point. I very much appreciate it though, and I might hit you up on it later after the other issues are fixed. I have a typical OBD II Actron you get from Sears for the scanner. About 150 bucks for it. I notice that the 5VZ motor still has a connector on the intake, but I don't have a clue as to what computer is needed to hook up to this one. Any other input is always welcome. Thanks again.

-ToYoTa-

Yea.. u must have the 4wheel drive computer. to make the 4x4 work right.... i just put a 2000 tacoma motor in a 1997 tacoma..... u be surprised at teh diffrence in 3 years. of just the lil petty ˟˟˟˟..... vacum lines... some extra some missing. motor mounts, throttle body, foot cable bracket on intake, air intake hose, even the wireing harness was diffrent. the 97 had more plug ups. thats only 3 years diffrence. just the little things add up. but i would say u need the 4x4 ECU for sure. and deffently. a manual tranismission one. or automatic what ever u may have. ecu has to match your vechile. i put my wireing harness on the 2000 motor. and used my computer. but i got the computer with the motor i purchased. but it was a 2 wheel drive, Auto, ECU.

alltrac165

Wellyman,
On your A/C, did you use the new A/C amplifier card, or did you get your old card to work with the new ecu?

Yeah, the OBD2 system is not quite universal yet. There are 3 major protocols in use. Ford, GM and everybody else, basically. My scanner is at my shop, so I am relying on memory that Toyota uses ISO. That may be your issue. The plug on the manifold is another diagnostic port that is not OBD2, it is a proprietary Toyota thing.
I don't think CC will be a problem as that doesn't hook up to the ecu at all on our models, I think. I know on mine it doesn't, anyway. The only problem is the cable is way too short. I never use it though, so I don't really care.

wellyman

Toyota: It's just the indicator light that's not lighting up. My 93 has manual, REAL shifters, so I know I'm in 4WD. No electronics in the 4WD system on my 93.

Alltrac:

I used my old A/C card, and all is well with that. My check engine light is on, and I know it's wired up right. I suspect that something is not right, although I have no clue. The truck runs fine, except for high idle, and the rare stumbling thing. I just hooked up the OBD scanner to my 98 M3, and it's working correctly so I know the scanner is working. There's only 1 single wire from the ECU to the OBD plug for signal, so I know I'm hooked up right. Tried it with KOEO, KOER, and nothing. I know you mentioned that the signal wire should be shielded, but I just wouldn't think that would make a bit of difference. If you feel differently, let me know and I'll try to find some shielded wire. I just don't understand why I cant connect to it. Protocol differences maybe, but I'm doubting it and if the computer was bad, I wouldn't think that my engine would run at all, no? What direction should I go? Can Toyota test ECU's? I was also wondering if there is some differences in sensors between autos and manuals. My motor is 2K tundra auto, and my ECU is 2k tundra M/T. TPS, IAC, VSV's, MAF? Thanks all for chiming in. It's getting snowy out here, and I don't want to drive the M3 in the snow, ya know.

alltrac165

Did you hook up the other wires to the OBD2 connector? The two grounds and the 12V+? I don't know that the signal wire needs to be shielded to work at all but it probably needs it to send a good clean signal to the scanner so you don't pick up garbage from interference. I ran a shielded one I ripped out of the old 3.0 engine harness. Only ground one end of the shield, btw. Leave the other end alone.
You could go to Autozone or one of the parts stores that offers free scanning and see if they can get it to communicate, I guess. Your M3 and the Toyota should share the same ISO protocol, so I doubt that's it. Are you certain you have all the wires to the right spots on the connector?
Also, on the 4WD, have you checked to make sure the ADD is engaging? That position switch is what feeds the light and the computer, or vice versa, I'm not sure. At least that is so on a '90.
Back to your A/C, did you have to modify anything to get the card to read the engine high idle speed? Mine won't pick it up. I'd rather not get a new card if I don't have to. I wonder if your 93 card is the same as my 90... Did you just wire it up by the EWD's and it worked just fine?

wellyman

Thanks alltrac165:

Well I ran a shielded wire for the signal wire. I still can't connect to it however. It's completely driving me nuts. I know it's wired correctly, I'm just sure of it. I know the 3 power wires are fine, as I get juice to the scanner. I think I might swap one of the pins of the power and the signal, as I know the pins to the power are working correctly. It's the only thing I can think of that I've yet to try. I've searched here on the forums, and I think I read a thread that was similar, and he had his MIL tripped, and couldn't connect either. He suspected a lean condition, as I do, and from what was discussed, the MAF in the 5VZ's is very sensitive and is prone to malfunctions. He said once he disconnected his MAF harness, he could connect. Well I tried this, but nothing. I then cleaned my MAF hot wires with electrical contact cleaner, and my MIL went off. Still couldn't connect, but heck I was happy the the light was off. Well the next time I started the truck, the MIL came back on and it's been on ever since. So don't know if a bad/faulty MAF is to blame, or some other sensor could actually prohibit the ECU from communicating to the scanner. Seems highly unlikely, as that's when the ECU SHOULD be sending info. I'm stumped. I will stop by the zone to see if they can connect, but they use the same actron as I do, and I've already verified that the scanner works on my M3.

I need to go thru the electrics of the 4WD again. I'm sure it's something simple, but I'm really not too concerned with it, as I know I'm in 4WD with the shifter engaged. It's just the indicator that's not working, not the 4WD as you already know. I'll get this fixed.

As for my A/C, to be honest with you, I really haven't spend a lot of time with how it's working in the truck. I just got the truck running, plus it's fricken cold here, and all my time's been spent working on the scanner connection. All I did was verify that the clutch engages, and cold air is coming out. I don't recall exactly how engaging the A/C affects my idle yet. I will do so, and let you know what I find. My idle is the original problem that drove me to want to connect to the computer, other than the MIL. When I first started it up the first time, it ran at 2000+. I turned off the truck, completely disconnected the throttle cable, and still it idled at about 1500. As there is no "real" way to adjust idle, I suspected an issue with the IAC. Not being able to connect to the ECU, I got frustrated, and completely removed the factory set screw in the front of the throttle body, and backed out the rear set screw as far as I could by the IAC. I would think that this should set my idle so low that it won't run, but even with these settings, it idles at around 1100. So that's kinda where it's at now. High idle I can't adjust, can't connect to the ECU, Pinging under load with good gas. MAF sensor and/or fuel pump is suspected problems, but I'd sure like the ECU to confirm.....Thanks so much for your help, and I'll do whatever I can to help you in any way I can. I assume that your A/C works, no? Is it just that your engine doesn't componsate for the A/C compressor load, causing your idle to drop too much?

Scottz

The OBDII scaners won't ever work unless you use the complete wiring harness from headlights to tail lights from the doner and all the sensors. I found this out the hard way when I wanted to use the scaner myself.

wellyman

I've never heard of this before. Not saying I don't believe you, but alltrac has done the conversion, and he connects fine. I would bet that no one who does the conversion replaces every harness. Just me guessing here. So I guess I'm not the only one here who has this problem then? Nice to know, I guess. I really appreciate you tuning in, and throwing this bit of info. Seems completely fruity that you can't connect UNLESS everything is o.k. WTF? I wonder if the proprietary connector on the intake would tell me info. Probably, and it would cost me, how much, for toyota to tell me? What a crock of ˟˟˟˟˟ if what you are saying is true.

alltrac165

^yeah, not true. I can connect fine with just the engine harness from the donor. If all is really wired correctly, I can't figure out why you can't connect. Kinda strange.

Try checking the whole engine over for vacuum leaks. My Dads truck was idling at about 3k once, and we found a vacuum hose that had cracked in two. Replaced it and all was good. Could be the O2 sensor is trying to trim for extra air and between the extra air from the leak and the extra fuel from the 02, it idles way to high? Just a thought.

No, my A/C does not work. Compressor doesn't engage. I must have wired it differently from how you did, or your card is different than mine.

wellyman

All right. I pulled the throttle body off last night. Gonna clean it all, check the IAC hoses, TPS, and associated hosing. Like you said, it's gotta be getting air from somewhere else, as the throttle plate is pretty much closed at idle. I'm sure it's getting air from somewhere else. Start there, and see where it takes me.

I'll have to double check my A/C now that you have me guessing. I'll report back as soon as I do. Most likely I won't be able to get back to the truck till the weekend.

Thanks again. Let me know if anything else pops in your head.

Scottz

Sorry about that, but I did a little more reseach on using the scaners and found they will work as long as you wire it using all the sensors that work with the ECU. The only time that scanners don't seem to work if you use an ECU from a auto-trans and have a 5-speed like my conversion.

Scottz

I also had a high rev problem when I first ran my 3.4 and the problem turned out to be the wiring at the MAF even though it pluged right in to my ECU harness and all the wires where the correct color, they where in the wrong location at the plug itself. But it sounds like you have all the matching parts to go with the ECU and if you don't then check'em. In the past Toyota would normaly change the plug if it had any difference but not anymore they use the same plug at the same location and swap the wires around. This is why ORS says you should get all the parts from the doner. I did not have that option myself.
Good luck and when you do get it running get ready for more power and alot better gas milage then the 3.0 could ever get.

wellyman

Well that's something I was thinking. I don't have the airbag sensors hooked up, or anything else that's not applicable to my engine/truck. I was wondering if this was something that's stopping me from connecting. What a completely f-ed up design in the ECU if this is the culprit. So much for an ECU to help diagnose problems....Anyways, I plan on getting back to the truck today.

I also was wrong about my 4WD situation. Even though the system doesn't communicate with the ECU, it still has an electrical control. I was under the assumption that the only component electrical was the indicator, but I got stuck this past weekend. I couldn't engage 4WD...Sucked, and so that's something else on the ungent list. I got my MAF from the donor, but I'm gonna check the EWD's anyways. Thanks for the input.

alltrac165

Wellyman,
what's the news? Any progress? C'mon man, keep me posted....

wellyman

Hey sorry. I really haven't done too much lately. The rear window motor failed on me, so that's taken away some of my available time. I've ordered a new fuel pump which I expect to have anyday now. Then I'm taking a day off, and working on it all day. I still haven't messed with my A/C, although I know it's possible to work w/o using the 5VZ amplifier. I'll post back my progress and results to you, I promise. I also have a call into ORS regarding the ECU and scanner connectivity issue. I wish I could find some answers on this.

Dieselyota

Ok, to fix the a/c problem, you dont need the 5ze amplifier, just wire the black wire which goes to the amplifier to the black wire coming from the MAF. The 4x4 computer and 2wd computer have different locations of wires for the saem computer since the 4x4 wiring is a little more extensive. A 2wd will work but will automatically go into LIMP mode in order to allow you to start and drive the car. You will of course be given a CEL. Does your tach work? Todd

wellyman

what exactly do you mean? Since I have a 93 4x4, using a 2wd engine and ecu, I'll be in limp mode while I use my A/C? And my CEL will trip? My tach works fine with the 10K fix.