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The dash pot was the check valve i was referring to in my post. Couldn't remember the name of it.
i would re time the dizzy with the proper idle.
as for the valves. I did mine hot like supposed to but they were way loud. I redid them yesterday setting them to. 007 and .011 cold like I've seen numerous threads reference.
i also pushed on the cam side of the rocker while checking, this ensures a proper reading.
needless to say 4 of my valves were ok checking it this way, the rest were measuring around .011 intake and .015 exhaust prior to readjusting, they were way loose.
The dash pot was the check valve i was referring to in my post. Couldn't remember the name of it.
i would re time the dizzy with the proper idle.
as for the valves. I did mine hot like supposed to but they were way loud. I redid them yesterday setting them to. 007 and .011 cold like I've seen numerous threads reference.
i also pushed on the cam side of the rocker while checking, this ensures a proper reading.
needless to say 4 of my valves were ok checking it this way, the rest were measuring around .011 intake and .015 exhaust prior to readjusting, they were way loose.
ehatch - I think you meant .009 and .013 cold, right? When cold, you want to set the valve clearance larger than the spec (.008 & .012 spec) so that when the metal heats up and expands you get pretty close to the spec. If you set them tighter when cold then I think you've got too little clearance. Maybe that was a typo, but I wanted to clarify for Joe in case he goes out to set his.
Joe - good job fixing the idle issue, boy looking back I know this was your plan to get to this point, seemed like a looong road but you really kept at it. I'm fairly certain I'll never tear my 4Runner down to that level and redo/repaint/repair each and every bit, but I enjoyed watching you.
Not a typo on my part. Through countless threads I've read plenty of them set to. 001 tighter cold to stop some of the noise. Although i do understand your concern with expansion, as i had that as well.
However, after setting mine to. 008 and .012 and running it, then recheck they ended up being way loose. I may run it again and recheck and see what i measure after a heat cycle.
Thanks guys, I appreciate the input on setting the valves. I was leaning towards just setting them to spec while warm to see what I get. That way I'll know things are where they should be and I can go back and tighten them up later if need be. I will keep you posted.
My lower control arm bushings came in the mail yesterday. I'm a bit irritated as I did not get what I thought I ordered. I wanted to make sure they had the sleeves- which they do- but not the right sleeves. The ones I purchased have the outer sleeve but not the inner. I don't know that I'll be able to remove the entire outer sleeve from the control arms I bought. I guess I can make them work by reusing the sleeves from the old bushings. I would just like this to be simple for a change...
Not sure I'm out of the woods on the idle yet, either. I still need to time the engine again and I'm hoping that will bring everything in line. The idle is very inconsistent now. I let it get good and warmed up, set the idle and everything seemed great. On the next cold start it did not idle up. I pinched the aux air hose and it stumbled so I knew it was getting air. I set the idle up while is was cold to about 1000 RPMs and let it warm up. Once warm the idle did drop a bit, but not much. I think replacing that idle set screw o-ring is next on the list. Again, can't things just be simple...?
Ha ha, nevermind about those sleeves- upon closer inspection I see that these bushings have both the inner and outer sleeves. It just got a little simpler.
They came from Advance Auto's online catalog. Not available in stores (so it says) and they were quite a bit less expensive than a lot that I saw. They ended up being about $25 each. Napa wanted $55 each.
Thanks guys, I appreciate the input on setting the valves. I was leaning towards just setting them to spec while warm to see what I get. That way I'll know things are where they should be and I can go back and tighten them up later if need be. I will keep you posted.
My lower control arm bushings came in the mail yesterday. I'm a bit irritated as I did not get what I thought I ordered. I wanted to make sure they had the sleeves- which they do- but not the right sleeves. The ones I purchased have the outer sleeve but not the inner. I don't know that I'll be able to remove the entire outer sleeve from the control arms I bought. I guess I can make them work by reusing the sleeves from the old bushings. I would just like this to be simple for a change...
Not sure I'm out of the woods on the idle yet, either. I still need to time the engine again and I'm hoping that will bring everything in line. The idle is very inconsistent now. I let it get good and warmed up, set the idle and everything seemed great. On the next cold start it did not idle up. I pinched the aux air hose and it stumbled so I knew it was getting air. I set the idle up while is was cold to about 1000 RPMs and let it warm up. Once warm the idle did drop a bit, but not much. I think replacing that idle set screw o-ring is next on the list. Again, can't things just be simple...?
If it's really not the dashpot occasionally sticking, and your timing is at least close then it sounds like a vacuum leak. I had about every common 22re problem you could have and my inconsistent idle stemmed from sticking dashpot and many vacuum leaks.
If a hose is hard as a rock, it may not seal well anymore and could also be hiding cracks that you can't see due to being inflexible. I.A.C.V. hoses are often overlooked and are probably original. Another common spot for air leak is the bottom of the accordian-shaped rubber intake hose connecting the long plastic tube to tb. Tears alongside the ribs. You probably have to pull it to check. Also, check the rubber of the dipstick and if it's rock hard or seems loose in the tube it needs replaced.
Personally, I never had much luck spraying starter fluid or other solvent around to find leaks, so it's best to check everything by hand and sight. Some also say you can hear a leak but at least to my ears, the fan and belts drown out those frequencies.
Been seeing a lot of talk about the dipstick seal lately. I suppose it can suck air into the crank case, which then gets sucked into the intake...never really thought of that before, I guess you can pull the dipstick and put your finger over the tube, if it idles better, you may have found your leak. What are people doing to fix this? Buying a new dipstick?
Oh and I did some searching after ehatch posted that the .001 under spec was not a typo, and yeah I did see a lot of posts where people are setting them under spec. Counter-intuitive to my way of thinking I guess. I adjusted mine cold to .001 over spec and honestly the engine is fairly quiet.
22re performance sells new dip sticks and the hoses. Mine has a rock hard seal on the stick and i plan to replace it and the hoses , although i do not have the idle issues with mine as of now.
joe, i know it seems like a headache, but you will soon have it to your liking. dont get too down though, you ARE dealing with a 30 year old truck. Besides, you have just about the best cheer squad on the internet for you!
joe, i know it seems like a headache, but you will soon have it to your liking. dont get too down though, you ARE dealing with a 30 year old truck. Besides, you have just about the best cheer squad on the internet for you!
+1
I've had my 4Runner 4.5 years and just today I noticed how dialed in it's starting to feel. I wouldn't sell it for any offer at this point. I'm one of THOSE people now!
Thank you guys, as always I appreciate the encouragement.
Not much to update as I've not had the time to work on the rig- just some prep work:
I caught up with my buddy at the 4x4 shop and he says there will be no problem getting the old bushing sleeves out of the control arms I bought. He knows some tricks. That way we can just press the new ones in, outer sleeves and all, which makes me feel better. We are planning to do that job on Saturday. In the meantime I'm cleaning and applying POR-15 to the new control arms.
Still playing with the idle. I really need to replace that o-ring on the idle set screw just to be able to eliminate that as a cause of my problem. I've added the dipstick seal to that list as well. Mine, like ehatch, is hard and probably not sealing well. The thing that really gets me is the inconsistency. Some days I start up the truck and it's right at 750, other days it's at 1000 and once in a while it'll dip down to 500 and be very rough...
I've been giving more thought to the auxiliary air valve, too. Some of you may recall that when I was putting this motor back together last year I accidentally swapped a coolant line with an air line on the bottom of the intake and pumped the entire intake (including the aux air valve) full of coolant. I wonder if that didn't just gunk it up and is now causing it to stick and not function correctly.
The TPS is testing out fine now, so I'm leaning away from that.
I still have the valve adjustment on my list, too.
One thing I did get done was installing the sail panels on the b-pillars. Now I just need to refinish the 4Runner badges and glue them back in.
Once I get the alignment taken care of I would really like to take it out in the hills for some wheeling action and "knock the new off of it" as my buddy Steve likes to say. Flex all those new parts and such, break it in some.
But, first things first...
If it's really not the dashpot occasionally sticking, and your timing is at least close then it sounds like a vacuum leak. I had about every common 22re problem you could have and my inconsistent idle stemmed from sticking dashpot and many vacuum leaks.
If a hose is hard as a rock, it may not seal well anymore and could also be hiding cracks that you can't see due to being inflexible. I.A.C.V. hoses are often overlooked and are probably original. Another common spot for air leak is the bottom of the accordian-shaped rubber intake hose connecting the long plastic tube to tb. Tears alongside the ribs. You probably have to pull it to check. Also, check the rubber of the dipstick and if it's rock hard or seems loose in the tube it needs replaced.
I have not done all these checks yet, either. The IACV air and coolant hoses are all new. I need to look at the boot at the throttle body, good thinking!
I am confident that the dashpot is working okay, though I suppose I could remove it, even temporarily, just to be sure. Believe it or not, another hose that I did not replace, that I think I will now, is the PCV valve hose headed over to the intake. It's hard as a rock... I suppose it could be a combination of these things too.
I actually forgot about the coolant mess in the intake. My stomach turned a little when I first saw that cause I was just in the process of finishing mine. Your little mistake had me checking the run of every hose under the hood against the fsm for a couple hours!
I'm not sure there would be a way for liquid to escape the i.a.c.v. cause it's at the bottom of that run of hoses, so I agree it's a good idea to check. Just pulling the front hose should be enough to know.
I removed my dash pot completely with no interest in putting it back.
i would remove the aux valve. I took mine out and used my refrigerator to check it, metered the heater, and set it at room temp per spec.
back to the valve adjustment.
i stated mine yesterday after setting my valves to .007 and .011 cold. It was super quiet. And to answer the question of more vs less depending on temperature, here is the answer for aluminum heads ohc
as the head, valve, seat warm and expand it pulls the valve away from the rocker, thus the valve clearance increases [loosens] as the engine warms. As the engine cools the valve, seat, head shrink and tightens the gap. The idea is not to over tighten the clearance to the point on cold mornings the valves hang open and don't fully close.
this explains why mine sounded perfect at first start but got noisy as it warmed up.
Shifting gears momentarily here- repairing/replacing the lower control arms: I had plans to meet up with my buddy for access to the lift this morning and he had something come up, again. This is our third attempt and I'm tired of waiting so I drove over to my garage and set to work. The first cam bolt broke loose in about ten minutes. I think driving around for a couple weeks and spraying PBBlaster on it constantly really must have helped out. That was the passenger side one in front. The driver side front one took about fifteen minutes to get loose. At that point I was getting excited- if I could get them all broken loose then I can get it aligned without worrying about changing out the control arms! My excitement was quickly extinguished however as I began on the rear bolts. The nuts came off easy enough but those bolts were (and still are) completely frozen up. I applied heat and PBBlaster and a small hammer and a big hammer, I got out the 24" breaker bar and cranked with all of my might to no avail. Midway through this I made a bad move and took the breaker bar and socket to the face. I had to sit for about thirty minutes waiting for the bleeding to stop. I feel lucky that I didn't knock out my two front teeth. I then went and cranked on it some more but had no success.
So I'm now back to the plan of replacing the control arms. I have my new bushings ready, the control arms are painted in POR-15, I have a fresh package of Lennox thick metal blades for the saws all- I believe I am ready. Unfortunately I ran out of time today as I have work this afternoon, but the next two days are fairly clear and I'm optomistic I'll get back on the road, fully aligned, soon enough.
Good news on the idle issue: seems to be settling in. I'm still not fully convinced my TPS is failing, but it's been good the last few days. It idles up cold and settles in around 600 - 750 RPMs once warm. For now I'm just keeping a close eye on it. I did more testing looking for vacuum leaks. I pulled the dipstick while the motor was running and it stumbled, so I have a good seal there. The air intake tube is in good shape, no visible cracks or signs of leaks. As I said, I'll just keep an eye on it for now.
I'll get a few pictures of the front end work this weekend and post them for those of you that are interested.
Check your cold start time switch. I checked mine last week when it was hard to start and low idled and it measured at 50 ohm cold, which is outside specification. Above 40 ohms the computer thinks it is warm and does not activate the cold start injector or fast idle.
Thank you Terry. I cannot tell you how many tricks I've picked up from your builds.
Originally Posted by 92ehatch
Check your cold start time switch. I checked mine last week when it was hard to start and low idled and it measured at 50 ohm cold, which is outside specification. Above 40 ohms the computer thinks it is warm and does not activate the cold start injector or fast idle.
its an expensive part coming in at 150 bucks
Thanks for the suggestion. While the motor was taken apart I tested most all of those sensors and switches, including cold start time switch- not having any trouble starting. I don't usually believe in things magically fixing themselves but for now it is idling perfectly. On cold mornings it idles right at 1000 RPMs and settles down to 600 to 700 once warm. Makes me smile. I guess we will see how long it stays that way.
On to the big news of the day: it is aligned!
Picked up where I left off the other day, giving up on trying to turn those cam bolts and set to cutting them out. First the sway bar linkage, lower ball joint and shock were all unbolted:
The control arm then just swung down (with some effort) and I was able to get the saws all blade in there. If anyone reading this is getting ready to do this do yourself a favor and buy some good quality blades. In total I used five Lenox carbide blades to cut two bolts out. It wasn't too bad sitting and cutting. Use lots of oil and try to get the blade between the frame and the bushing- less to cut.
That got me here:
I knew I was going to have a hard time getting the outer bushing sleeves out of the control arms I bought. I used the saws all to cut relief cuts in the sleeve:
I found a thread here on Yotatech showing a homemade press for just this purpose. I picked up some 1/2" threaded stock and some nuts and washers and voila!
With some 3 in 1 and a second use for that 54mm socket I bought it popped the old ones out and the new ones in!
Here's a new and old lower control arm picture:
A bunch of anti-seize and bolted it all back together:
The other side was the same process and put it all together:
I drove it straight to the shop for a good proper alignment. They got it all squared away and I am officially making this my daily driver. I took it out on the highway for the first time, too. Got it up to 70 (faster considering the oversized tires) and just really opened it up for the first time. I haven't had it in 5th gear for a long time...
Eveything feels great! What a feeling!!
My wife insisted on a "crossing your legs and leaning on it" picture. I was happy to oblige.
a side note in testing that temp sensor. Sensors that work on resistance amd temperature (thermistor) are not necessarily good based on a simple meter test.
if it tests bad with a meter is bad, period, but if it tests good that doesn't mean it's good necessarily.
the reason for this is your multimeter puts out a small amount of voltage and gets it back, uses the voltage lost to calculate the resistance. Normally that circuit has 12v on it, that load could be the difference between good on a meter and bad on a car.
all that said, don't go buy a new 150 sensor based on that information, rather wait until it does it again and then immediately test the circuit. That will usually give you a more definitive answer.
You make a good point on testing those sensors, makes good sense. I hadn't considered the difference between the sensor stand-alone and under 12v load.
All this has me thinking, too, about the possibility of just having a loose connection somewhere. If one of my plugs inadvertantly damaged while the motor was coming in and out or something... I suppose that would account for the inconsistency of the problem.
As I said, however, I'm going to run with it so long as it is working as it should!
02-13-2017, 05:25 AM
