Dento77

iTrader: (4)

up front i want to thank the members of YT for the invaluable info everybody provides here. i wouldn't be as far as i am without the 3.4 swap section.


just about finished with my 3.4 swap in my 88 5spd 4runner. the engine/harness/ecm came from a 99 4runner limited auto with the security system. i'm pretty sure i'm up against a no start due to the security, so any troubleshooting on any other possible issues is rather difficult. wiring has been triple/quadruple checked and everything looks to be correct. i am getting fuel/spark and it will run for about a second then die. have tried jumping the fuel pump to the battery to make sure it isn't COR related, still fire for one second then die. pulled a plug wire to check spark when firing, strong spark then none, engine dies. since it fires and runs good for that one second, i'm going to go out on a limb and assume everything is correct until i find out otherwise. my no start is being caused by the security system.

after staring at EWDs for a hours, talking with a buddy and going back on previous experience with GM's V.A.T.S. (vehicle anti-theft system), i have a few questions on how toyota systems work. going by a gm system: chipped key with one of 14 values, sensor to measure resistance of key, sends info to pcm to enable fuel/spark. there are a couple ways to get around it by either placing the appropriate resistor inline to trick the sensor into giving the enable signal. the other is to reflash the pcm using TunerProRT or other similar programs and turn VATS off by checking a box in the GUI of the tuner program. now looking at the toyota system..
--NOTE: ANY WIRE SHOWN WITH A (*1) IS SECURITY SYSTEM RELATED--

*B+ wire in top pic runs to bottom pic W-L (*1) top left corner of junction connector.


assuming the keys work the same in both systems, is there any reason i can't locate the transponder key amplifier shown in the top pic in the donor 4runner and wiring into my system giving it switched power in hopes that it will tell the ecu to start. one of my few doubts about doing this is having no way to be able to arm/disarm the system if need be. any thoughts, input would be greatly appreciated.. anything except "go find a different ecu from xxxx". i like a challenge and don't mind putting in the time do figure it out. BUT, if anybody knows of any roadblocks i may not be aware of (or something we just have obliviously overlooked), please chime in.

any ideas on where the transponder may be hiding would be greatly appreciated as well.

hamish_18

so you are thinking the computer is shutting the system down because the transponder circuit is missing? With the key on the COR should have power going out the blue wire. L-O to be exact. If its not, then something is not right. Also, on your year. there is an FC wire. That goes to the COR also. It will be the G-Y pin 2 wire in your diagram above. You need to find that wire at the ih1 or 2 plug and point it to plugE pin3. Make sure both pins 1 and 5 are switched 12v and you should be good to go. Honestly you shouldn't have to touch the COR at all except for the fuel wire. Its just my 2 cents. It may very well be that security system. I haven't had to deal with it. I really hope its not a "you have to get a new ecu" situation too.

Dento77

iTrader: (4)

i'm 99% sure that the COR is correctly wired up. used the 88 COR and its connected to the FC wire. it will go through a prime cycle during key on and you can hear the relay click when the engine dies. i included the pic of the COR in the OP to reference all wires having to do with the security system i could find in the EWD. (i also only posted partial EWDs due to hearing that toyota isn't particularly fond of their schematics and such being posted online. if one wants to look at the complete EWD, PM me your email and i'll PM it to you)

i borrowed a ecm from a 02 3.4/auto 4runner without security at the junkyard and tried it in hopes it would run. no fire at all using that pcm. i'm guessing it's not working because the 99 has a 3 wire tps and the 02 has a 4 wire tps and its probably pinned differently. the 02 engine is gone so i can't confirm the tps. just a guess.

i'm also guessing it starts for a second because according to the ecu, there shouldn't be any fuel pressure. once the ecu realizes the engine is running, the security kicks in and kills fuel and spark. i've read in a few other threads about people trying to get replacement keys and programming them to find when the chip is bad or incorrectly programed, that the engine just turns over. i don't know for a fact that the keychip needs to operational to enable the fuel pump, but it seems pretty likely. in a working toyota system: insert key, security sees key then powers transponder amplifier which gives the correct signals to the ecu to enable fuel pump while rest of ecu powers up as normal. i think with using the 88 COR and bypassing that part of security, i'm getting it to start for a second since i *shouldn't* be having fuel pressure at that time. complete the rest of the transponder circuit and it should start.

alot of guessing, i know. but i'd like to figure it out for future swappers that may not have the option of swapping out ecu's so they can get their rigs on the road.

thanks again hamish for the info on the COR. i like to have multiple sources of info for my projects. any tidbit of info may help connect the dots.

hamish_18

whats weird is that this is the first that I have heard about this? I would assume others have ran into these problems, if it were a problem. I have been trolling this forum for awhile now lol. Maybe a call to the guys at Toyonlyswaps.com could shed some light on this, since the do these swaps for a living.

Dento77

iTrader: (4)

ok, i give. after talking with a few people about tricking the security system, one being a toy tech, and it was the general consensus that it would be an insane amount of wiring to get it to work. basically trying to get anything security related to work in the 88.

so now i'm on the hunt for a MT ecu that will work with my engine. i understand that i'll need to repin a few wires and thats fine. i did find out that this is a cali vehicle according to the parts guy. am i stuck with using a cali ecu or? i live in a visual inspection only county (score one for living in the sticks?) so as long as they see a cat and its not belching smoke, its good to go.


here is the door tag of the donor. any help finding compatible ECUs would be greatly appreciated. if you need more info, just ask for it and i'll have it as soon as i can get over to the shop... where it is.. now outside... under a tarp.

NIGHTCRAWLER541

Try PN 89661-3D560 99 4runner, 5speed V6, no transponder.

Dento77

iTrader: (4)

thanks nightcrawler, that was fast!

so far this is proving to be the holy grail of toyota ECUs. i've found a couple so far, but refuse to pay more than $100 shipped for it. back to the phone!

Dento77

iTrader: (4)

update:
still haven't found a MT ecm in the price range i'd like to pay.

but, i did finally get to talk to cliff at toyotaonlyswaps.com for a few mins today. you can get by the security if you have the key and transponder unit from your donor and wire them in to the harness. basically it was how i thought it might work in the OP, but i had forgot to add the key into the mix.

so now its down to "get another ecu" because i couldn't find the key and the column has already been sold from my donor. but for anybody reading working on the same problem, thats how you get around it.

Genshie

I know I'm bringing this thread back from the dead, and hopefully you've long since solved your issues, but I had the same exact problem as you.

Was putting a 3.4 from a 99 4Runner Limited into my 85 4runner and had the exact same no start situation. I first decided to ditch the ECU because I did not want the extra complication of a transponder and key in the wiring harness. I found an ECU from a 2000 Tacoma that was the exact same wiring harness/connectors without the security system.

I plugged it in, crossed my fingers and still, no start! I was on my last nerve. I went back and quadruple checked my wiring. Turns out one of the W-B wires from the ECU is a ground wire for the security system, and I had the wire grounded to the body thinking that it was an ECU ground. I clipped the wire and VIOLA, the truck fired up!

I have since connected that wire to a toggle switch that I now use as my kill switch. 8 months later the truck has not missed a beat. Absolutely flawless. One of these days I'll get around to documenting the whole swap. Last thing to do is get the A/C running, which I'm working on now.

Dento77

iTrader: (4)

good to hear your swap is zero problems months after the swap.

i ended up swapping ECUs for a 3D590 which is a cali,v6,mt unit that uses an air/fuel meter instead of an o2 upfront. after a few tweaks it runs like it did in the 99 4runner. still have a bit to do before it legally hits the road, but just yard driving it is a blast. off idle response is ridiculous! can't wait to get some miles on this thing.