camo31_10.50

i have an 1800W Kenwood Mono amp, kenwood says it's 1ohm stable but i don't believe them.


my buddy had the exact same system, just with different subs in it. I have Dual 4ohm voice coil subs (1 Type R Alpine, One Insignia from BestBuy, (both free )

he had two Addictive Audio V2's which were also dual 4ohm voice coil(not sure on the 4ohm, but they were DVC)

he even had THE exact same amp (he gave it to me) and his never shut off. ever.

mine shuts off if i have it up past about 70% of my full volume.

i have my subs wired up to where it should be 1ohm at the amp.http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchf...no-low-imp.jpg

just like that.


which is the exact way he had his subs hooked up. to the same amp. so the 1ohm load shouldn't be a problem AFAIK.

the only thing i can think of that would be different is he had a 2006 dodge half ton w/ Hemi. which means his alternator put out a few more amps than my wimpy toyota one does.

i have a pretty decent starting battery from oreilley's (the one just below their most expensive brand.)

one thing i notice, my + battery wire (which is 4ga i believe, maybe 2. i'll check) is quite long, LOTS of extra cable that i don't need. but that shouldnt cause a problem should it?

i have a good ground, (grounded to my passenger side rear seat bracket.



just trying to figure out why this stupid thing shuts off???

if it's my alternator then i'll replace it with a better one (likely MR2 100amp).

if not then i need to know wtf is goin on.

I have done the BIG 3 upgrade, with 4ga welding leads. (heard they were better than battery cables. plus less expensive for me (leads were free from work lol)


the red light on my amp is the one that turns off whenever it cuts out. the blue LED's on the amp stay on though.



i can tell theres quite a load being put on my charging system. because everytime the bass hits, my battery gauge moves down about 1/4".

but it moves a little bit everytime i roll a window down? wouldnt think it should do that.....

if any of you guys with the REALLY loud systems has any advice, post it up.

i don't wanna go spending $1000 in upgrades though, i have like $200 in this system and it's PLENTY loud enough for me....lol

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Could be a power or wiring (power or ground) issue. Quick check you can do is to grab a pair of jumper cables and hook one end onto the battery +/- terminals and the other end to the amp power connections. If one or both jumper cable connections help the issue, then look at that wiring. Or try putting a volt meter across the amp power connection and see what it reads as the volume is cranked up, you are looking for the voltage under load. And extra wire, no matter what gauge, is more resistance than a shorter length of the same wire.

camo31_10.50

alrighty, i'll cut down my power wire to the proper length.




so should i just test my voltage at my amp power connection, and see if it drops as i turn up the volume?

and if it does then i need to upgrade my wiring again? or do something about my alt?


and as i understand your reasoning...i should take another seperate wire, run it from the battery to my amp, and another ground from my amp to my negative terminal, and see if this helps? if it does then look at whichever wire helps?


it's kinda embarassing when i'm listening to a song, and the bass just cuts out completely

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Yes, that is the general idea.


Well if voltage drops it could be one of 3 things.

1. Alternator output voltage has dropped, causing all the other system voltages to drop.

2. Too much resistance in the power circuit to the amp (ohms) causing too much voltage drop (volts) at a high current (amps) (volts = amps x ohms).

3. Same thing but on the ground side.


Yes, that is the general idea.

I used a similar approach when I had SWR problems on my old CB antenna mount. It was bolted to my heavy steel rear bumper (that should be a good ground, right). But after getting a high SWR reading, I took a jumper cable and clamped to some clean frame steel and to the CB antenna ground. SWR dropped to normal. So that said between the painted brackets for the bumper bolted to the painted frame and the greased pivot bolt of the tire carrier that the antenna was attached to, the "ground" connection was not all that good. I could have added a separate ground wire for the antenna mount, I instead decided to relocate it to the body where it was a cleaner install and worked better anyway.

camo31_10.50

interesting. Thanks 4Crawler, you're on top of things with good advice as usual!

tj884Rdlx

1. is the amp shutting off because it's overheating or because of voltage drops? wondering if it's not a lack of power but a lack of cooling.

2. are you using a capacitor? maybe you should be for the kind of power and music levels you want to run at.

camo31_10.50

not sure how i can tell if it's heat or voltage? it gets warm, but doesnt get HOT.

and i've always heard capacitors don't help enough to matter?

camo31_10.50

and my headlights will dim no matter if i'm idling or if i'm running 5000rpms goin up a big hill. doesn't matter.

that's what makes me think it's the alternator.

i just read up on capacitor's and they seem like a good idea? i'm still a little new to all of this. even this is not my first system, this is the first time i've ever had problems with a system.

Elton

sounds like the amp is not 1ohm stable alot of amps are not id rewire your subs also running mismatched sub's not helping that type r in a good ported box would be more than enough...

Elton

o and them 22re alternators are no power house's could swap in a gm alt that will help alot too

camo31_10.50

the specs on both subs are the same.

i have a 3vz, not a 22re, but my alt is still no powerhouse.


even when i had just the type R hooked up, it would still shut off, but now with the extra sub, it shuts off in about half the time.



the amp is supposed to be 1-ohm stable, whether or not it is idk.

if i could run my subs at 2 ohm (at the amp) instead of 1 ohm, then i would. i believe the only other way to hook them up gives me 4ohm at the amp, which is no where NEAR the full potential of the amp.

like i said before, the amp was fine in my buddies truck, and he had it wired up to 1ohm. so the amp and subs isn't the problem. it's something on my truck.

i think a bigger alternator would do me more good than anything else, especially since i'm going to be adding a winch, plus some lights(although they will be HID)

tj884Rdlx

the output from your alt is measurable.

you should be able to put a meter on it, and watch exactly where your voltage drops when the system is on. maybe you don't have enough power for your amp with the headlights on. watch the meter and wait for the amp to cut out. if you can see that the cut-out is in synch with voltage drops, you're on to something. if you see the power is maintaining above 12 volts and the amp cuts off, you may be tripping it's fail-safe for overheating.

of course, the amp could just be going bad. maybe the amp is "tired" from running at 1ohm for a while, and can't handle it anymore. maybe when it was removed from the other system, something was shorted by mistake and unnoticed.

you could try wiring it up at 2 ohm or 4 ohm for a while, and just see if it runs for hours without cutting off at all. you may determine it's necessary to run at 2ohm, but compensate by using a crossover with a higher slope.

also, when you run at lower ohms, you're usually using a combination of speaker outputs meant for two different speakers. make sure you're using the same two that the p.o. was using. (L+ and R-, or L- and R+) if that's selectable.

capacitors, when used in the right size, are very helpful. they basically are a reserve well of power, available for when that heavy bass note hits and the amp needs more, now! car audio is typically at 4ohm. running at 2ohm is one thing; you're trying to run at 1ohm. that's usually for serious audio systems, and i don't know anyone playing in the 1ohm world that's not using some good quality caps to protect the electrical system in your car as well as the audio system. do some more reading about them and see if they don't sound like a good solution for you.

also, since you are running at 1ohm, the specs on the rest of your system become much more critical. are your drivers the same impedance as the p.o.'s? is the H.U. supplying the same input power in the audio stream? variances may be making the amp unstable and tripping a safety cutoff. in fact, sometimes the electricity in an older vehicle is just less stable, increasing the need for a capacitor.

of course, if you plan to add aux. lights, upgrading your alt is a sure thing. there's a thread on here for modifying the bracket to fit a GM alt, which may give you more options if you can't find a direct bolt-on in the amperage you require.

lastly, make sure your ground for the amp is AWESOME. i mean really, you can't overground something. scrape away paint or whatever, and use good quality connectors, so you're certain the amp has good ground.

good luck!

Elton

is your amp ground to a seat bolt and sanded to bare metal ?

c0ugar69

check the voltage at the amp when you turn it up. if its dropping too low then its power related. capacitors will help in this situation because they take some of the load off of the battery. if its not power issue maybe one of the free speakers is damaged. try hooking it up at 4 ohms just to see how it does. also try hooking one sub up at 2ohms and see how it does there, maybe the amp isnt handleing the 1ohm.

camo31_10.50

whenever i had the ONE type R, wired up at 2OHM's at the amp, it would still shut off, just not as quick.
whenver i first got both subs in the truck, i wired them up to 4OHM at the amp. and to be honest, it just was NOT loud enough. hell it was quieter than when i had the one sub wired up at 2ohm.



i don't believe i can wire these particular Dual 4ohm voice coil subs up to where it's 2ohm at the amp. i have the option of 4ohm, or 1ohm.

my buddies subs were dual 4 ohm just like mine, only his could handle a little more RMS power.

my headunit has 1.5v pre-outs (if i remember correctly) and that's where i have my *input* set on my amp, 1.5.

yes it's grounded to my seat bracket, and yes it's sanded to bare metal on both sides.

i could run these subs at 2ohm at the amp, but that would require a 2channel amp, according to the crutchfield wiring diagrams. found here http://www.crutchfield.com/S-5g8iDAG...rs_wiring.html

my amp produces 900w x 1 RMS at 2ohm. and it says >900w x 1 at 1ohm.

Elton

it cant be 1ohm stable if its the same power rating at 2ohms

camo31_10.50

it says >900w

which means greater than 900w.



kenwood claims that it is 1ohm stable, but i have read several places that it is NOT actually 1ohm stable.

but with that aside, my amp was still shutting off when i had it wired up at 2ohm at the amp with just the one type-R.




maybe i could trade my amp, for a 2channel amp of equal power...hmm

camo31_10.50

so, turns out my buddy told me wrong, he came by and looked at it, and we figured out that he had his wired up to 4ohm at the amp.

i'm going to rewire my subs this evening. and then we'll find out how this amp will do at 4ohm. (not impressive i dont believe..but we'll see, i'd be happy if it didnt shut off all the time.)

not very much of a voltage drop at the battery, even less at the alt. but there was a significant drop at the amp (measure at the + terminal on the amp). didnt pay attention to how much of a drop it was, but it was twice as much as it was at the battery.

my ground had a ohm of 1. and whenever my subs hit, it dropped down to like .5ohms.

on the K1 setting on my multimeter.




pretty sure i said that last part right, not positive. lol

camo31_10.50

sooo...re-wired the subs. everything should have been fine, until i turned it on...it sounded okay, alot less bass (obviously, going from 1ohm, to 4ohm.) but after just a few mins of having it on, i started smelling something like burning wires...so i immediately shut it all off.

haven't been able to take the subs out to see whats wrong yet.

I'm thinking about reversing the subs, like have the magnet sticking out of the box, just so it's easier to work on them lmao

MaK92-4RnR

burning wires? you need to go to 4 gauge...

I'm almost sure that this is a wiring issue. Too much amperage / ohms for the size of wire that you are using, I'm guessing. If i felt like pulling my truck apart, i'd show you how mine is wired up. But i have 4 and 8 gauge wiring looming throughout my entire truck.

I seriously doubt its a amp issue, let alone overheating. I have my 400w amp and my 1000w kenwood amps mounted under my seats and its tight under there. No overheating issues what so ever and i've had the system for almost 4-5 years...

What size wires are you running from the amp to the sub? and from the battery to the amps?