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I found a schematic of the headlamp and highbeam indicator wiring, interesting use of Kirchhoff's circuit law the way it's wired. I have some ideas about getting the highbeam indicator working by adding a diode to the circuit. I'll post the fix if I find an easy way to do it.
I took a look at the Putco harness again, the battery connectors look like fusible link wire, if someone can verify that you won't need to add fuses. The wire should have "fusible" on the insulation if it is. The harness I got on ebay looks pretty good. Like I said, the only problem might be the cheap relays they put in it, but they can be replaced with better ones later.
I took a look at the Putco harness again, the battery connectors look like fusible link wire, if someone can verify that you won't need to add fuses. The wire should have "fusible" on the insulation if it is. The harness I got on ebay looks pretty good. Like I said, the only problem might be the cheap relays they put in it, but they can be replaced with better ones later.
My Putco harness definitely doesn't have fusible wire.
All of the Taiwan and China harnesses that I've seen have pretty cruddy relays. I know I can replace mine with OEM Honda, Mitsuba I believe..
I think you could probably replace your relays with heavy duty Tyco/Bosch pieces.
You were talking about solid state relays before. Do those allow you to just push a reset button and carry on? When I read solid state that's what popped into my head.
My Putco harness definitely doesn't have fusible wire.
All of the Taiwan and China harnesses that I've seen have pretty cruddy relays. I know I can replace mine with OEM Honda, Mitsuba I believe..
I think you could probably replace your relays with heavy duty Tyco/Bosch pieces.
You were talking about solid state relays before. Do those allow you to just push a reset button and carry on? When I read solid state that's what popped into my head.
I'm sure there are relays with circuit breakers built in, but I was talking about a regular relay that has no moving parts or contacts inside. Hella has a solid state relay... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-h41773001
A relay is a relay, there's numbers next to the terminals that's pretty much universal on all relays as far as wiring. There's also dual relays in one package so you can replace two relays with one. Here's a pretty good website that has lots of info on headlamps and the circuits that control them. http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...ys/relays.html
I'm fairly familiar with Stern's site. That's where I got my Cibie E code lenses, Narva 100/90W bulbs and relay kit from over 10 years ago. Fantastic combination!
I don't have a lot of experience with electronical circuits but it would seem like the dual 87 pin relays are the way to go. That way you don't have to cram two wires into one connector. It seems like all the cheaper harnesses use the other type. To save money is my guess, like their use of close to 16 gauge Vs. 14 or 12.
So, I've been looking to upgrade headlights. I did the H4 conversion housings years ago with a cheap set of imports off ebay. I've never liked the beam pattern so recently ordered a set of Hella housing and found some 100/55 watt bulbs too. I'd planned on upgrading harness as well and being I've go gift certificates to low range off road seemed like a convenient. This post (thank you OP for starting it) brought some questions to the surface about the house upgrade harness. Since there is no specs on the website a emailed them asking simply if the harness would handle upgraded bulbs. Here is their response.
"Hmmmm....
Kind of a tough question, although I think it would handle it, we have only used the lower wattage bulbs on this one.
The IPF harness is by far the better product.
It might be a get what you pay for kind of a deal.
Sean"
I responded asking for specs about plugs and wiring but Sean did not reply.
Definitely a little let down by the response but it more or less gave me my answer. Now looking at ebay for a harness. most say ceramic plug but haven't seen any that list wiring size.
I'm not going to cut my old or new harness to measure the actual wire gauge, and it isn't printed on the wire, but...
The stock Toyota headlamp wires are 0.80mm thick (probably 22 gauge. Really Toyota?) including insulation.
The aftermarket harness wires are 1.4mm thick (probably 16 gauge. Better) including insulation. The fuse included is 30A.
The stock Toyota wiring is a switched ground through a whole lot of wire and switches, lots of voltage drop.
The aftermarket harness/relay switches this around, the ground is close to the headlamps and power is closer to the battery, less voltage drop.
If you are going to be pushing >200w total, you will want a larger wire size. My bulbs are 60/55 and voltage drop is much improved with the new harness.
You could buy the ceramic headlamp plugs, a couple HD relays, fuse w/holder or circuit breaker, bulk 12 or 14 gauge wire, connectors, wire loom, and make a monster headlamp harness for about $100.
Kind of a tough question, although I think it would handle it, we have only used the lower wattage bulbs on this one.
The IPF harness is by far the better product.
It might be a get what you pay for kind of a deal.
Sean"
I responded asking for specs about plugs and wiring but Sean did not reply.
Definitely a little let down by the response but it more or less gave me my answer. Now looking at ebay for a harness. most say ceramic plug but haven't seen any that list wiring size.
There's no reason not to seek out a harness WITH ceramic headlight plugs! I used the same "Heave Duty" plastic type of plugs that some of the other kits come with.
I had NARVA 100/90 bulbs in a relay system that Daniel Stern supplied the parts for (he DID NOT supply the headlight plugs) and I chose to use 10awg wire.
On an extended coastal drive I had the high beams on most of the time. When I got back home the plugs showed signs of melting/heat damage. Now I won't use anything but ceramic headlight plugs.
When it comes to the Taiwan and China produced harnesses most of the places are very evasive when you question the wire size because by now they know people are looking for heavier wire gauge. They don't want to be caught lying and have to take their parts back. I believe there's different thicknesses of insulation so I don't think going off that is an accurate indication of what the wire gauge actually is. Lets face it who really wants to cut new parts up just to check the wire size and businesses know that's not likely to happen.
I'll bet that $29 harness is a foreign produced piece using the same 16 awg equivalent as the rest of them.
It looks like it has ceramic H4 plugs, two fuses (maybe waterproof but I doubt it), and is using the same relays as the harness that bswarm is using.
Not a bad way to go if that's what you're looking for but it seems overpriced for what it is. You can get the same harness that bswarm got for under $16 from two different US eBay sellers with free shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171559005371?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321388197376?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
If I was using under 90-100w on my low beams I wouldn't have a problem using that type of harness. However I would change the relays to something better known like the Tyco/Bosch brand and I'd change the fuses over to a dual waterproof design just to make me feel all warm and fuzzy http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PACK-16-GAUGE-ATC-FUSE-HOLDER-IN-LINE-AWG-WIRE-COPPER-12-VOLT-POWER-BLADE-PCS-/281098224083?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4172c281d3
If I was using 90-100w low beams I wouldn't care for that 16awg much. My reasoning is because *IF* I've figured it correctly (help me out here you electronic's guys) running a 100w bulb at 12v with 16awg will result in right at a 3% voltage loss, or about .42v.
As you can see from results listed on http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...ys/relays.html
that adds up to a fair reduction in lumen output when you get around 14V where we're trying to get.
Kind of a tough question, although I think it would handle it, we have only used the lower wattage bulbs on this one.
The IPF harness is by far the better product.
It might be a get what you pay for kind of a deal.
Like bswarm mentioned above you can get all the stuff to do it yourself and have a damn fine harness ready to kick some tail with just about any bulbs you want to throw in there. I think I'd stay with 12-10 awg for at or under 100w, but at 130w or more I'd for sure use the 10awg wire, again to give me that warm and fuzzy feeling.
I think if you want anything near/over 100w you might as well do HID conversions. I explored that possibility, but don't want to be pissing off other drivers. Regardless, even the cheap China made harness is an improvement on the factory setup.
On to my LED switcheroo... More bulbs on the way. I finally found the bulb for the heater control, put a blue LED in it, now it matches the rest of the instrument cluster.
If anyone puts Hellas on, you might find the housings don't sit flush in the mount. I had to bend the mount with a pair of pliers at the bottom inside corners and now they fit flush. Of course, re-adjusting the aim was necessary.
Did you check to see what actual voltage you were getting at the headlight with the stock harness Vs. the relay harness?
Originally Posted by bswarm
It is 14.3 at the headlamp with it plugged in and turned on, it was 13.something on the old setup.
bswarm-
Did that reading from the drivers side or the passengers side headlight?
Do you have your relay system hooked to your battery or the Alternator?
Since you got pretty good results with your kit I actually bit the bullet and ordered the same kit from the same eBay seller. I mentioned three others were selling it for less and someone named Tina replied and gave me a $5. discount. I received it in a surprising three days. I figured it would cost me about the same to make all the improvements I wanted to do to the Putco harness so what the heck. After looking again it looks like RSR is also using the same CHSKY brand kit.
Voltage at my battery with the engine running is normally about 14.48V. I have the POS cable hooked up to my battery, the passengers headlight is grounded to the battery, the drivers side headlight is grounded to the core support.
I tested the voltage at the drivers side plug and I'm only getting a high of 13.65V. Maybe I've got some voltage drop testing to do?
NEG Drop test on drivers side is so low my multimeter won't pick it up, it just beeps.
Yes, tested at drivers side headlamp. I wired mine to the battery, not the alternator. I made a relay bracket out of 1/4" aluminum plate (left over from another project) and mounted it to the fender next to the battery, Drivers side ground is connected to an existing fender ground bolt next to the AFM. Passenger ground is an unused bolt hole near radiator, sanded paint off to make them good grounds. Do a voltage drop test, it will tell you where your voltage drop is. Battery positive to low beam pos (with lights on should be ~0.2V) and bat negative to headlamp ground (should be almost 0)
Like I mentioned above, most of the voltage drop with the stock wiring was the elaborate ground through a lot of wiring and switches.
Voltage drop with 60/55W bulbs..
Factory wiring: Positive 0.4 V & Negative 0.7 V
New harness: Positive 0.23 V & Negative 2 mV (0.002v)
Update: The Hella conversion came with standard 60/55W Halogen bulbs (about 3200K), even with full power they were yellowish.
I put in a set of HELLA H83140272 60/55W High Performance Xenon Blue Halogen Bulbs (about 4000K), Same wattage but much whiter. Great upgrade for $20.
Since the weather has been nice lately I've been doing alot of wrecking yard runs so I haven't done much in the way of looking where I'm dropping voltage.
Since my multimeter didn't pick up any voltage drop on the negative side I thought maybe my meter was off.
I was using the radiator core support to ground the drivers side headlight so I ran a 12awg wire straight from the NEG battery terminal to that headlight's ground with no gains.
I'm wondering if the loss is coming from before the relay, after the relay, or the relay it's self but I just haven't dug into that yet.
What is the voltage drop from B+ to lowbeam+ with it turned on? Don't measure battery voltage then headlamp voltage, go from battery to headlamp.
You still have about 10' of wire and a relay running a 60W load...
Acceptable voltage drop for wiring is 0.20V, less is better.
Maximum allowable voltage drop for any relay or switch contact is 0.30V.
What is the voltage drop from B+ to lowbeam+ with it turned on?
go from battery to headlamp.
That's measuring the drop? I might not have it hooked up to the correct terminals. The whole switched ground thing is confusing to me.
What color wire does what on this harness?
I connected one end to the battery + and the other to what I think is the headlight low beam + (white wire/top pin) I got a reading of 14.2V when it was switched on.
Switched off it was reading .66- which probably doesn't mean a thing.
That's measuring the drop? I might not have it hooked up to the correct terminals. The whole switched ground thing is confusing to me.
What color wire does what on this harness?
I connected one end to the battery + and the other to what I think is the headlight low beam + (white wire/top pin) I got a reading of 14.2V when it was switched on.
Switched off it was reading .66- which probably doesn't mean a thing.
A voltage drop test is hooking up a voltmeter in parallel with a wire, switch, relay, or load. That is, one end of a connector to the connector on the other end of the wire, switch, relay, or load.
And the headlamp connector must be plugged in to the headlamp and turned on.
The headlight was connected to the harness and turned on when I did the test.
One end of the multimeter was hooked to the B+, the other end of the multimeter was clamped to the prong on the headlight that had the White wire connected to it while the headlight was turned on. I got a reading of 14.2V
Confusingly it wasn't reading the drop, that's why I asked for conformation of what the Blue, White, and Black wires on this harness do.
I figured it as, Black-Ground, White-Low beam, Blue-High Beam
Here's a schematic of my headlamp wiring and wire color and where to measure voltage drop. I left out the headlamp switch wiring to the relays to keep it simple. Are you sure the headlamp switch was on low beam?
I connected one end to the battery + and the other to what I think is the headlight low beam + (white wire/top pin) I got a reading of 14.2V when it was switched on.
Switched off it was reading .66- which probably doesn't mean a thing.
Duh
Now I see the point you were trying to get across, I had the two figures reversed. My V Drop on the power wire is actually .66 which seemed a little excessive to me so I tried it again today and got the same reading. I'm going to have to look around on that side of the circuit.
... most of the voltage drop with the stock wiring was the elaborate ground through a lot of wiring and switches.
Correct!
There must be around 15 feet worth of wire on that (in 4Crawler's own words) "convulated path." Therefore, a harness upgrade is more essential to improving lighting than a housing conversion.
Originally Posted by bswarm
Here's a schematic of my headlamp wiring and wire color and where to measure voltage drop. I left out the headlamp switch wiring to the relays to keep it simple. Are you sure the headlamp switch was on low beam?
nice work, Bswarm.
This clearly illustrates how much improvement an upgrade harness is over stock wiring.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 06-21-2016 at 10:11 AM.
02-27-2015, 06:11 AM
