4chucker

btw erik, glad you figured it out. nothin says lovin like a warm truck in the mornin!!also the factory imob. sys will remain intact. the add on box with your key in it should only activate when the r/s is used. however!! if a thief were to break in, and find the key, easy pickin`s, even if the key is uncut or made useless ( grinding off ridges etc...) the code chip is still there . when placed near the ign.sw, then hot wired, still has steering lock though,easy to break? i don`t know. just make sure that key box is WELL hidden. it does not have to be it the vicinity of the ign sw. as for the mashed link, erik i`m glad it worked for you. if it helps, python is made by directed electronics also known as viper. they have been around for a very long time and are of good quality. i dont sell it at my shop and i dont dissmiss it as a less that standard product one bit.

midiwall

Hmmm.. I knew that I had picked a GM module (and thus doesn't directly apply) but I was pretty sure that neither of those required a key. I thought I'd talked with Ryan (from Commando) about this when I first found them. That whole concept just doesn't make sense to me...

Oh well.. live and learn I guess.

erik

I have it resolved for the most part. But wait... I think the car might need a new fuel filter or newER batt. The truck wont start again... it turns over breifly and not long enough I think for those really cold times, like now. So if they can program one remote for the rev sensing and the second remote for a longer time duration for the cold, then maybe it will all work out.
... As for "Jimrockford" Kevin- your issues are likely different than mine because of the fact you don't have a chiped key. But what I tried to do before this with relative success, was to have one key chain remote programed to a shorter duration for those summer-like days and so that it wouldn't over crank. And the other remote set with a longer duration for those cold winter days. Then when I wore my favorite cold weather coat, I had my cold weather remote looped to my inner zipper tab so that I can start it with a longer crank duration instead.
ew

Bob_98SR5

as mark said, the way it was explained to me by the commando rep (ryan) is that there is an add-on module that bypasses the immobilizer. he did not mention anything about sacrificing a key or anything like that.

i did not set up my vehicle for remote start, though i wired it like that from the beginning by accident. when jimrockford mentioned that i had it wired that way, i immediate disabled it by snipping a wire (or two). i have a 98 (non-immobilzer) 5 speed and i dont trust myself to leave it in neutral all the time. in fact, i always leave it in reverse.

bob

4chucker

erik , this is not a problem with your vehicle.....you need to take it to your installer. he needs to have the vehicle cold for testing. perhaps leaving it over night in his shop? it`s a matter of fine tuning. i don`t believe you can program one remote for a longer crank when its cold and one for regular use. the r/s should give you a diagnostic reason for not starting. your manuals will tell you how to do that.does it not attempt to start 3 times before giving up? iknow this sounds like alot of hassle for a r/s, but every once in a while you get one that needs special attention.i bet it will be something so simple.

erik

I'm really pissed. I tried to start it yesterday morning. With 12 degrees temperature, it fired right up after the key swap. It took one second and vroom. (that;s a fluke) But then in the afternoon it warmed up to a blistering ~25deg. and the car was still not driven. And that attempt it fired up on the first try BUT the system would not let the first attempt fail so it cranked up to about ~5 seconds THEN the car started.
Last night I went to CC again and the installer said he's been doing this for 9 years and has never seen a Toyota have this much trouble in any shape or form. In fact he said they usually train people on Toyotas because they have a rpm sensing and all...
As usual. I have the WORST LUCK in @#$%^ cars!!
The installer went on to say that this Python system is built by DEI, one of the premier or major brand companies that assemble systems for other companies. He also said that the immobilizer is NOT very likely that could be at fault, but he would be willing to switch it out to see if it's a fluke and the immobilizer has some sort of defect in it. To add to this point. The valet key should be just the same as the main key. He reiterated to me that if one key engages the start sequence, it is because the system does understand it's the right key, so either key _should_ work the same.
I went across to Pep Boys to have my battery checked. It checked out at 623 CCA!! It was 0 degrees outside last night and the car driven for 20 minutes to get to these two places. So the vehicle has plenty of cranking amps during draw. So that shouldn't be the problem, I don't think. If the truck needs about approximately 400 CCA to start fine that would be about 30% more than what it needs to fire up.
Now I tried this morning and it's going threw it's normal short duration startup sequence and when it doesn't start up in one second (which is not enough in the 20deg. temps.) it stops and retries a total of three times and then ultimately quits if it can't start the truck. I attempted the start sequence 4 times! And with each try, these three attempts tries to restart with 1.2 or 1.4 second durations. This is not long enough and can not be adjusted for a longer duration under the rpm mode. BUT the rpm mode SHOULD understand it's not starting and allow a longer duration, don't you guys think?????? As yesterday proved that it did try once at a longer duration, and it started. But this happend only once during the whole month I've had it. (maybe that was a fluke accident) but what caused this fluke is the question? This fluke that let the system crank over for ~5-6sec. until it fired up in the cold???
The installer said that since you reattempted it in the afternoon, it was warmer and the system knew it could start the car with a longer duration so it tried for that long.
Well. My question still remains w/o answer. If that is the answer for when it's warmer. It can still start in the cold with even a shorter duration, like 2 sec. if I use the key, so why didn't the system attempt a slightly longer time for the really cold days/ nights??????
That can't be answered!
SO now I think I'm going to take it to another installer. Maybe Car Toys or something like that if they don't charge me. Because, I don't want to pour more money into this damn project for in the end to have it removed.
Also. C.C. can not refund the labor. So I'm out the 180 bucks in labor if I return it!!!!

midiwall

So...

What's the chance that this is a problem with the truck and has nothing to do with the remote start?

I know that mine will sometimes have a heck of a time starting - remote or with the key. In my case, it seems that it will get loaded up (i.e., when I last shut it off, the injectors fired after the spark stopped firing thus leaving fuel in the cylinder, requiring longer cranking to clear it), but I also _know_ that I have bad starter contacts (that symtpom is that you turn the key to START and... nothing. If you _hold_ the key in START, the engine will eventually turn over and then fire).


In the case of the Commando, this is handled by repeated attempts at starting the truck.

I think 4Chucker asked above if your system is programmed similarly.

erik

You said: "In the case of the Commando, this is handled by repeated attempts at starting the truck.
I think 4Chucker asked above if your system is programmed similarly."

I thought I answered as thourogh as possible. But I'm sure all whats going on, that that was miscommunicated. But I'll try my best to answer...
Yes it can be programmed for either the rpm sensing with 3 attempts (but only tries with short start durations)
OR
The system can be programmed for virtually any duration of start. But then in that programmed setting, the truck will not attempt to retry if it doesn't start. I would have to pick up the key chain to reset and retry again, myself. I'm sure because this setting is an override to the rpm sensing mode, that this is a good and safe default.
Just incase the truck did start, the system wouldn't try to restart a running engine...
_________________
I now have made a ....umm. 5th visit to CC. THis time I requested a totally new system but same model. These guys are starting to get a little glazey-eyed at me and they are making me feel like I'm to blame for this to happen. lol. In a way I guess it is. ... I should have been called Murphy. Because if something can go wrong, it'll happen to me...
My instinct tells me that this system swap isn't going to help much. But it's my last resort to returing it with flames comming out of my eyes and requesting a FULL money back for my troubles.
I think it's the ____ truck's fault. Since I purchased it used. I'm not sure what was done to this auto before I owned it. But the installers said before they got under the dash, it looked like the wires were never tampered with and looked totally stock.
But they also think that there isn't a factory insatlled security sys on the truck either. I'm not so sure about that since last morning the truck left me stranded and there was a relay that was switching on-off rapidly . You know? Like the way a horn would cut in and out wile in the warning mode? Probably do to the attempt to start the auto that morning, and after three attempts it didn't run, I just let it sit for a couple extra hours before I had to use it to drive off to work. That's when I was stranded at home and noticed that my newer battery was totally dead. And that's a new problem. So I uninstalled the box and recharged teh batt to get the car running again to get it to work and back. I also had to reset the system by unpluging the batt before operation.
Note. the other reason I think that there might be a security system is. There is a blinking red light in the dash above the stereo. AND before I had the remote start installed, I could have the horn sound when I would unlock the door before I unlocked the truck with the keyless entry keychain unit.
So is it possible I have a security sys installed by the factory? And it's a part of the factory keyless entry sys that is meesing up the remote starter function???
Again. the CC guys swears that the existing factory keyless entry sys is not any part of the new sys.
ew

4chucker

hello erik. im guessing you now carry 2 remotes with you.is one a oem toyota piece? perhaps you could restate exactly what year and model of 4r you have.i will check my database @ work tomorrow for your vehicle. what im thinking is if your 4r has a factory alarm, that it may need to be dissarmed before starting the vehicle then rearmed after the start.i know some lexus cars need this as there is a factory ign. kill onboard. most r/s and alarms should have factory arm/dissarm outputs for this. i just read the install manual and yours does. just for fun, try unlocking the vehicle first with keyless remote then start the truck with the other remote. the factory alarm usually takes a few minutes to fully arm and mabey when testing, it doesn`t get the chance so the r/s will work but after the vehicle sits, it has time to fully arm and the trouble begins. hope you read this soon so i check the specs for your 4r and get back to you!! good luck. also what does the r/s give for a shutdown/no start diagnostic? i`m back. just doing some rereading of the thread, erik im not sure the f/a is the problem but mabey.the r/s by the looks of it has no way of telling what the temp is outside. it would make mention of that in the manual. i`ve had trouble a few times where if the imoblizer bypass transponder coil isnt placed just rite the starter wont work or int work at best. just a few more thoughts. to test this , (i think this was mentioned earlier or in the manual or mabey just in my head) get in the vehicle arm/remote lock the doors wait a few min., insert key in ign, don`t turn, try r/s. if it works, bad bypass. placement of key in bypass box can also cause this problem but not to often yap yap yap! im goin to bed. hope to hear from you tomorrow. Colin

midiwall

Ummm... Okay, well, like I kinda' said before...

In the case of the Commando, it will try to restart the truck 3 times - and it understands if the truck is already running (RPM sensor) which will cancel the retry loop.

Anyway...


I agree with Colin that if another alarm system is in there it could be causing problems. I think one of the first things I said is that I ripped out my factory system and replaced it with the RS system which is also an alarm. I _know_ that the two would have collided.


edit: I wanted to clarify something. By pressing my point about what "my" system does, I'm not trying to start a "mine vs. yours" battle here. I was trying to say that "if mine can do it, I think yours should be able to". As much as I like the system I have, at this point I would really like to see you get yours working correctly.

Another way to put this would be that "it would seem silly for an RS system that can detect the engine running (through an ignition/tach sensor) to _not_ be able to combine this function with the ability to retry.

erik

QUOTE=4chucker]hello erik. im guessing you now carry 2 remotes with you.is one a oem toyota piece?
ME -The only time I did was a couple days ago when the r/s sys went down.

4chucker]perhaps you could restate exactly what year and model of 4r you have.
-2000 Ltd 4runner, 6cyl.. .. Silver in color .

4chucker] I will check my database @ work tomorrow for your vehicle. what im thinking is if your 4r has a factory alarm, that it may need to be disarmed before starting the vehicle then rearmed after the start.
-Well. I was thinking along those lines as well. I used the r/s remote to unlock (thereby disarming the truck, theoretically) before I'd start the truck. But to no avail.

4chucker] I know some Lexus cars need this as there is a factory ign. kill onboard. most r/s and alarms should have factory arm/disarm outputs for this.
-does this mean that the factory alarm has a different connection for the new r/s that didn't get hooked up? (no) you mean that the r/s sys has that... right? Then when the car gets unlocked, then it should immediately disarm the truck. One thing I didn't do was use the f/s, original remote to unlock before using the r/s remote to start. I don't think that would have proved anything compared to using the r/s to unlock it first. ? But now's to late. I have it totally replaced. continue to read below.

4chucker] i just read the install manual and yours does. just for fun, try unlocking the vehicle first with keyless remote then start the truck with the other remote.
-install manual to the aftermarket r/s sys you mean, right? Well. Not only did I try to unlock and restart the truck that way. I tried to start with the other key in the ign. with using the r/s remote and THAT was the ONLY way it DID pop right on. So that led me to believe that it was a bad immobilizer. I got that replaced as well as the main brain box this time. And either/or were bad and now (so far) it works every time like a charm!!! In the mornings, late at night, after it's been sitting all night or when it's just been driven.

4chucker] the factory alarm usually takes a few minutes to fully arm and maybe when testing, it doesn't get the chance so the r/s will work but after the vehicle sits, it has time to fully arm and the trouble begins.
-I somehow don't see this as to be a concern right now. So far it is working. But I would have some reasonable concern if a security sys doesn't arm almost immediately after it's set.

4chucker] also what does the r/s give for a shutdown/no start diagnostic?
-not sure. All I know is that their system and installation made them pretty confident that it was NOT the r/s sys or my alarm (if I have one) that was causing this abnormality.

4chucker] I`m back. just doing some rereading of the thread, Erik im not sure the f/a is the problem but mabey.the r/s by the looks of it has no way of telling what the temp is outside. it would make mention of that in the manual.
-Yeah. So far there isn't anything that would cause me to believe it was the f/a that has been causing this. Just a guess. The key in the ign. proved to tell us something when every time it would remote start when the original key was inserted (but not turned).

4chucker] i`ve had trouble a few times where if the immobilizer bypass transponder coil isn't placed just rite the starter wont work or int work at best.
-that was likely the problem. Even though I didn't want to see them again, I decided to take them up in the offer to also replace the brain box at the same time. In replacing the immobilizer and installing the newer one, maybe they installed the key a little better and that was the missing link?

4chucker] just a few more thoughts. to test this , (I think this was mentioned earlier or in the manual or maybe just in my head) get in the vehicle arm/remote lock the doors wait a few min., insert key in ign., don`t turn, try r/s. if it works, bad bypass. placement of key in bypass box can also cause this problem but not to often yap yap yap! im goin to bed. hope to hear from you tomorrow. Colin[/QUOTE]
-that was it! The immobilizer (bypass box) was likely the culprit. Even though the installers were pretty confident that it was highly unlikely. And if you remember from my mentioning before, they swapped out the valet key for the main one to see it that solved the problem, but it didn't so, it's the box's fault.

Now time will tell if it decides to be a intermittent problem again. But for now anyways, it's working like a charm. But before, even in warmer weather it mostly didn't work. Now all I need is some really cold weather, like I had before to really put it to the test.

4chucker

hey erik. wooo hoooo! glad to here things are better.yeah i don`t think the factory alarm is going to cause any kind of problem. cold weather shouldn`t cause a problem. if your truck runs good and starts fine with the key in cold weather, the r/s will start fine as well. all the r/s really does is simulate the actions of you turning the key. it uses the tach wire to tell the r/s when to stop cranking. it`s a fancy ermote controlled way to hotwire a truck!! Sleep well my friend.( had my fingers crossed when i said that :p) Colin

erik

:bounce2:
Finally! After several remote start operations, I can confidently say that it is resolved. Not only will it start on the first attempt. It will start almost immediately. And it starts in many nights and mornings that have been 12 degrees here. _AND_ the other day I was at my brothers condos. I parked about a block away and his place is a unit on the opposite side of the building and I just tried to remote start the truck before leaving his place. When I finally arrived at my truck, it was .... running? WOW! :xmas11: it was going quite the distance and going threw solid walls to make it work. It's amazing this system's range!

yprior

Good info in this thread, thanks