T4L

I have experienced this 1st hand. The Honda ownership experience is unlike any other.

1stgen4gunner

I don't know if your open to Acura/Honda, but my mom drives a 2001 Acura MDX and we have a total of 7 people living under the roof and fit fine in it. It has an Auto-Shifter and heated seats, a navigation system, 3rd row of seating, etc. The 3.5L is very quick and smooth, as well as the interior being very tastefully done, plus you won't look like a complete doof by driving this like would the minivan. Take a look, they are very reliable and got good reviews by consumer reports, and the older used ones can be found from around 7-12K. Good Luck.

Godzilla

To add to the pot I will say that my brother with 3 kids, dog, and a wife get around pretty good in their Odyssey. The ride is a little more firm than the toyota, however the handling is more responsive and an overall better driving feel.
They live in Alberta where snow is frequent, but with a good set of snow tires they never have had any issues and my brother is a pretty terrible driver. ha!
What amazed me was the ridiculous number of cup holders, yet still no toilet.

toyota4x4907

I didn't mean to sound rude or anything. I actually thought maybe they were, which would have been really stupid, IMO.
Let me tell you something about awd vs fwd. My mom has been driving fwd vehicles in Alaska for 30 something years and PREFERS them over AWD and 4WD vehicles. She has never had a problem. She has driven an '85 Ford Tempo, a '90-something Chrysler Voyager, a '93 Mercury Villager and a '97 Mercury Sable wagon. All FWD, and the vans usually had her, my dad and us 5 kids, and the occasional dog. We lived (she still does) in a pretty rural place, usually with 1/2 mile long driveways and when it snowed and she had to get the kids to the bus, she would drive one of the FWD vehicles. So, Don't be afraid of the FWD vehicles. They handle just as well, IMO and in my mom's opinion
Hope you get what you and your family want.

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

I personally would stay away from the Dodge/Chrysler products. Early to mid 90's van had problem after problem, and I don't think its gotten a whole lot better. The V6 engine they offered was TERRIBLE and the transmissions constantly went out. My dad went through 3 transmissions before 150k in his 93 Grand Caravan.

taikowaza

thanks toyota4x4907 for your tips on the good points of FWD. I think that the 'subaru effect' has taken hold here in the pacific NW...there is a thought that only AWD can be really good in snow. I think you are correct, everyone who has the Odyssey with snowtires for example, seems very happy and no complaints. The FWD Sienna rates much higher than the AWD.
Deathcougar I have come to believe 100% in your opinion about the Dodge/Chrysler vans, I did a lot of research over the past 2 days and all I read about those vehicles did not make me feel confident at all. To hear about your dad's issues with his power train only makes me more certain.
Looking for manual transmissions I checked out the audi quattro Avant series, bmw x3 and x5, saab 9-3 and Hyundai Santa Fe as well. I know I will drive it also and I would vastly prefer a stick. I may have to overrule the sliding door rule in favor of manual (I thank my lucky stars that my wife also prefers a manual trans).
Deathcougar if we do go the highlander route, I agree that the hybrid is way overpriced. To get the 3rd row you have to go with the limited which brings the price close to 50K which is crazy. The highlander sport to my eyes is a way better deal. I think of the highlander as the lesser of evils. I imagine that it could be pretty cool.
I don't mean to drag this thread out but if anybody has ever driven one of those audi or saab wagons (or the santa fe) I would enjoy hearing more, but if not don't sweat it!

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

If you are entertaining CUV's, why not look at the Rav4? Its about the same size as the Mazda Tribute, and can be had in AWD with a manual trans up until 2005. I am not sure if they had 3rd row seating or not. I am thinking no, since they are relatively small vehicles.

Highlander would be an excellent choice. Those vehicles hold their value VERY well. But, they do not offer a manual transmission. So, there may have to be two people making concessions...your wife AND yourself lol

taikowaza

Nice thinking on the Rav4 Deathcougar. I actually just watched the consumerreports video on the RAV4 and I was really impressed with how much it's changed in the past few years. The 3rd row seat started on that model in 2006...the same year they got rid of the manual trans! Ahhrg! Why is it, if available, that manual transmission for these manufacturers, means that you have to get the entry level vehicle? In Europe, you can design and customize so many aspects of the vehicle...and then add the manual for good measure. Anyway enough b#*%hing, sorry. I think I've tried to cover all the angles, thanks again for all the advice! If we decide on something I'll conclude the thread with some pics.
PS. I have been reading more about the Mazda CX-9 and it seems like a really good option. I'll have to think really hard about highlander vs. cx-9. This article was pretty well-written I thought

Ron Helmuth

good to hear you are ruling out the Chrysler products.

I mean no offense if any of you work for them-but their product reliability is poor, has been poor, and merely got more expensive after their failed Mercedes Benz partnership.

There is a reason Mercedes ran away from that deal and it's more than money.

TC4RNR

Dodge Sprinter 2500 Van. It's a MBZ turbo diesel with a Chrapsler badge. I had a chat with a local Fedex driver couple years ago, he got 20mpg easily on his delivery van that's 100% local street driving.

Ron Helmuth

good pick-I forgot all about those Mercedes diesels in the Sprinters.

Good post TC4RNR, all the room of a huge conversion van and the improved fuel mileage offered by the diesel. Very reliable engine and drivetrain.

Should be able to get almost 23 on the highway which is incredible for a high top huge vehicle.

4x4

My wife has an '07 Sienna 8 passenger and it's been great. You have to be able to get over the whole mini-van ego thing, though. It is extremely comfortable to drive, it really drives like a car.. Has plenty of acceleration - 266HP. It's like one of the top 10 safest cars on the road. And the best part is the gas mileage you get in such a big and safe car. It gets 30+ highway. In mixed 60highway/40ciry driving it generally gets 25+.

Resto-noob

iTrader: (3)

To answer the Tribeca question, my wife's uncle is a big fan.

As far as the Odyssey goes, my folks are running all-seasons, not snows. We do get a substantial amount of snow here, my banks are still visible in the driveway. I typically take my 94 Corolla out in the snow rather than my F150 4X4, to save it from the salt. Front wheel drive is really pretty impressive.

Keep us posted...

firemaniac

I read that you didn't like "Mini-vans", but I have to recommend at least one, 99 to 05 Chevy Astro or its sister the GMC Safari. I used to have one, with the 2 rear (removable) benches it would haul 6 party goers (drinking adult sized people) easily, plus me the DD for 7 people. It has the excellent Vortech 4.3, a good 4L60E, and is available with rear or AWD. I got 16-18 MPG (99 AWD) driving like a bat outta whell you know where.

There is some aftermarket support for them (lift kit, pop top's), and since they used a lot of off the shelf Chevy parts they are easy to get parts for. and to top it all off, they are rated for a 6K trailer.

A couple of places to see modded van's
http://www.astrosafarivans.com/
http://www.astrosafari.com/index.php
http://www.overlandvans.com/

nieuwendyk-25

Taikowaza.....I have three words for you....SEQUOIA, SEQUOIA, SEQUOIA.....

I too was in your position not too long ago. We had one child and were expecting triplets (but that's another story). I HATE MINIVANS as well...and on top of that, they just wouldn't take me where I wanted to go on my trips to Colorado in the summer. Also, having 3 baby seats made for another problem. It was very difficult to get a baby car seat to the 3rd row of a minivan when the other seats were being used.

We looked at the new 4Runner and Pathfinder with the 3rd row seat, but these had no cargo space due to the 3rd row seat. It also didn't solve the problem of the three baby seats.

The only minivan I would even entertain the thought of was the Honda Odyssey. My sister in law has one and it drives like a charm and is built really solid. I thought at the time that it was the most sporty minivan on the market...if that is possible for a minivan. My brother has the MPV and while it fits his needs it is a piece of crap as far as build quality and I feel like it would be very dangerous in a crash. The doors and side panels are very thin and offer little to no protection for the kids in the back. The MPV also has no cargo space, while the Odyssey offers a huge cargo area.

Anyway, a minivan was pretty much out of the question for me, and I refused to buy a Ford or a Chevy just because of reliability and quality concerns. I drove a Sequoia and a friends expedition, the difference was unbelievable. We bought a 2005 Sequoia SR5 4WD and are very happy with it. We got the rear side curtain airbag option for added protection for the kids.

I have only two complaints, and if you knew me, you would know I am very much a perfectionist...it comes with the profession. My two complaints are the gas milage...it gets about 14 mpg in town, and my particular Sequoia uses about a quart of oil every 2000 miles (apparently a quart every 1000 miles is acceptable to Toyota). Other than that, we have really enjoyed this car...to me it is just a big 4Runner. It won't go all the places my 4Runner and Jeep will go, actually it probably would, but it is too expensive for me to abuse it too much.

The Sequoia is one of the most comfortable cars I have ever owned...the back seat is like sitting in the front seat. The kids have no problem getting in and out of it, and two of them sit in the 3rd row now that they can buckle their own seatbelts. We have taken it on several family vacations and it always gets us to the top of the mountain. This winter we took it to Colorado for Christmas and towed a small cargo trailer over a very steep and winding mountain pass that was covered with snow. The Sequoia did not slip or falter even once. At one point in the trip we pulled my brothers MPV and my brother in laws Pathfinder out of the snow with no problem.

I have been amazed at the overall power of the Sequoia, and it tows with very little effort. We are actually thinking of towing my Jeep to Colorado this summer.

If you are looking for good gas milage look elsewhere, if you are looking for a family transporter you will truly enjoy, almost as much as your 4Runner....get a Sequoia. I am on several Sequoia forums as well, and judging from what I have read there, look for an '05 or '06 for reliability. I am not a big fan of the new ones, and I think they have IRS, but they are just butt ugly!

Good luck in your search...btw my Dad has an '07 Landcruiser and I prefer driving the Sequoia....more power and control. The LC is very tippy and has unpredictable handling due to its soft suspension. Plus at $65K I would rather not drive it.

Here is ours on top of Engineer pass in Colorado:

taikowaza

I am overwhelmed with all the good advice on this thread. I must say that it is not an easy time to be choosing a big switch like this. But I feel way more educated now and learning more all the time. TC4RNR thank you first off for telling me about the Dodge Sprinter. I have been reading up on these and learned that they have a cult following in Japan and elsewhere in the world. I had no idea. 4x4 your wife also loves her Sienna, we have not test driven one yet but there is a reason consumer reports ranked it #1 for years in a row. It is solid all the way. You are right about me having to get over the whole ego-related phobia to mini-vans. I admit this is an issue, I do not know if I can get over it with the current designs, but it is for my wife, so it will be up to her. She is leaning Odyssey way, she is not impressed with the highlander and feels (like I do) that toyota's current designs are not so inspiring.
Firemaniac thank you for telling me more about the Chevy Astro and GMC Safaris. I have been reading up on them, there are many very happy users. I think my wife wants to go w/a Japanese vehicle b/c she is Japanese which definitely affects the decision- should have mentioned that at the very beginning!
Resto-noob I was not surprised to hear that your wife's uncle is a big fan of the tribeca. I also like it very much, I am a fan of subarus in general. I find them boxy but they handle very well and have a quality feel. The 3rd row in the Tribeca is cramped in my opinion which is one of the few criticisms I have. I like it but perhaps not enough to take the plunge, I am not sure why. Odyssey is where my wife seems to have settled for the time being however a new development has emerged in that I may be upgrading my 2nd gen. I have been trying for a swap but it does not look like it will happen. We need power to spare going over the rockies and it is not happening with my 3vze lately, even smal hills are killing me and I do not want any issues during this long family trip.
I was considering a 3rd gen manual 4runner or waiting for the 2010 (hoping there would be a manual trans version ready by this summer) but
nieuwendyk-25 your post has really got me thinking about the sequoias. I wonder if a sequoia for me and a odyssey for my wife might be a good solution. I really like the sequoia it is just like a huge 4runner. I really like the design, your photo is fantastic. I have even seen them with ARB bumpers on the front. I have a question, when did they stop making manual transmissions on those vehicles (did they come in a manual?) Can you get locking rear diffs? What is the site that you are a member of? I want to learn more.
Consumers (sorry to mention them so often but I just resubscribed to their online content, lots of good info in there) rank the 05 sequoia as one of the absolute best deals going right now.
2005 Toyota Sequoia Ltd Utility Auto RWD 8 Cyl 4doors 51,000miles, original list=41,605 current blue book=17,250.

taikowaza

I've been looking at the 2005 sequoias that consumers reports lists as selling for 17250...I don't know what I am doing wrong/what they are smoking but that same vehicle is selling for almost double that in Seattle! There are some available in that configuration on the east coast but it seems that as the vehicles go west the price increases at every mile! Crazy... I must say that the Sequoias are NICE, I like them a lot. I could see us in one for sure. I could be happy with it, it's enough like my 4runner. The design is really nice. I could go for some POWER, would you recommend the V8 config? My wife is still set on the Odyssey so we'll be taking a test drive soon. Thanks again everybody for all your input. It is so much better to have YT intelligence behind these big decisions.

UPDATE- after doing some talking, it doesn't make sense to have 2 vehicles that hold so many people. It would be smarter of us to have 1 people mover for when the guests are in town, and the other to be a super great gas mileage vehicle for in-city. I was thinking about maybe the combination of the Sequoia for family trips...and a new 2010 prius for in-town. Just brainstorming but I think that would be a really great combination. I would keep the Sequoia and my wife would drive the prius. She seems to like that idea so far, her friend has a prius (2006) and absolutely loves it. So that combination might be an option.

clydehatchet

My wife and I have decided to stay away from the new car scene. Instead, we have decided to buy a late 80's through mid 90's suburban for when we have to haul kids or family. Kinda gets away from the idea of a manual transmission and good gas milage, and something newer, but kick ass none the less. At the moment iv got a 2nd gen 4runner and she has a 1st gen crv (which she loves). plus being a mechanic i've seen a lot of cars i dont want to own simply from working on them. However, my manager has a mazda 5 and he loves it and it seems to be pretty simple to work on plus decent on gas. I dont know man, there are a ton of options for you but if i can help you whittle out a few, stay away from mitsubishi, suzuki, and dodge/ chrysler.

nieuwendyk-25

We also decided we did not need two big vehicles for moving everyone. We only drive the Sequoia if it is all of us or at least 5 of us. I was not giving up my 4Runner and my wife knew that wasn't going to happen. I use the 4Runner for runs to Sam's for my office, and toting my tools around while my wife needs the Sequoia for the kids. We still have two pretty big vehicles, but we all won't fit in the 4Runner.

As for your earlier questions, I think the Sequoia only comes with a V8 and I haven't ever seen one with a rear diff lock (though my 4Runner has one...one reason I won't give it up...I special ordered it that way).

The main Sequoia forum I am on is actually Tundrasolutions.com There are a lot of Sequoia owners on that site....and a lot of Tundra owners too.

TC4RNR

For the long term, I won't bet on a Prius, I'd take a bullet proof Corolla over the hybrid any day. The 10mpg difference just doesn't justify the the $15-20K dollar higher price tag. It's very simple to calculate based on how many miles you drive per year and gas prices($2-$4/gal.). Plus, if you can handle a 4Runner, maintain a Corolla is piece of cake, cheap to repair, too. On the other hand, not many people in the country knows how hybrid works neither how to fix it. When the time comes to change the battery, there goes your $6000 in a chunk. I can't believe how many used Prius I've seen on the dealers lots because people just realized it doesn't add up, numbers don't lie.

My wife works donwtown Indy, she drives here RAV4 45 miles a day in 'n out of traffic, 29mpg easily. I have put 5 265/75/16 BFG tires in the back with the rear seat fold down. It fits 4 adults comfortably.

I agree with you on the Highlander, if I want to get a Camry, I'd just buy a Camry, not a badge says Highlander.

Also, do you know in some areas the Toyota Financial 0% is back?