SAS Questions
06-07-2010, 03:21 PM
#1
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SAS Questions
Im new to SAS never working on a toyota until I finally got one!!!
and I am in the process of removing all IFS components, everything seems pretty strait forward and I haven't ran into any problems yet anyhow.
All The IFS is out right now, all that is left as of now is to grind everything down.
All the post and pictures have helped me out A LOT, I want to thank all of you for providing those pics and posts.
First, What kind of steering conversion/steering do I need to do, I noticed everyone takes the stock steering out?
Also, When mounting my Hanger bar in the front do I need to angle that at all or will it be fine flush mounted?
Im going to be running toyota running gear as well.
Lastly, are there any tricks/tips for placement of the shock hoops and the rear shackle in the front?
thanks again, Casey
and I am in the process of removing all IFS components, everything seems pretty strait forward and I haven't ran into any problems yet anyhow.All The IFS is out right now, all that is left as of now is to grind everything down.
All the post and pictures have helped me out A LOT, I want to thank all of you for providing those pics and posts.
First, What kind of steering conversion/steering do I need to do, I noticed everyone takes the stock steering out?
Also, When mounting my Hanger bar in the front do I need to angle that at all or will it be fine flush mounted?
Im going to be running toyota running gear as well.
Lastly, are there any tricks/tips for placement of the shock hoops and the rear shackle in the front?
thanks again, Casey
06-07-2010, 07:14 PM
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SAS Installation Instructions please read them
My post was moved for no reason. It doesnt belong in the "newbie section" im trying to get views and answers ASAP, and not have my post sit around on the "newbie section" This is a "Solid Axle Swap" thread and this is a post worthy and related to this topic obviously.
Im new to SAS never working on a toyota until I finally got one!!!
,everything seems pretty strait forward and I haven't ran into any problems yet.
All The IFS is out right now, all that is left as of now is to grind everything down.
All the post and pictures have helped me out A LOT, I want to thank all of you for providing those pics and posts.
First, What kind of steering conversion/steering do I need to do, I noticed everyone takes the stock steering out?
Also, When mounting my Hanger bar in the front do I need to angle that at all or will it be fine flush mounted?
Im going to be running toyota running gear as well.
Lastly, are there any tricks/tips for placement of the shock hoops and the rear shackle in the front?
thanks again, Casey
Im new to SAS never working on a toyota until I finally got one!!!
,everything seems pretty strait forward and I haven't ran into any problems yet.All The IFS is out right now, all that is left as of now is to grind everything down.
All the post and pictures have helped me out A LOT, I want to thank all of you for providing those pics and posts.
First, What kind of steering conversion/steering do I need to do, I noticed everyone takes the stock steering out?
Also, When mounting my Hanger bar in the front do I need to angle that at all or will it be fine flush mounted?
Im going to be running toyota running gear as well.
Lastly, are there any tricks/tips for placement of the shock hoops and the rear shackle in the front?
thanks again, Casey
06-07-2010, 07:56 PM
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for steering the majprity of sas owners prefer to go with crossover steering because it takes the stress off of your ifs steering box. for the front hanger leave it flush.
06-07-2010, 08:33 PM
#4
Not exactly good advice
a lot of it depends on what kit, size springs you are using for the front spring hanger or are doing rears up front ...asking some of these questions now after you have starting cutting...
Front Spring Hanger Placement: (when using longer than stock springs like Trail Gears)
Toyota Rears Up Front (RUF) FAQ
a lot of it depends on what kit, size springs you are using for the front spring hanger or are doing rears up front ...asking some of these questions now after you have starting cutting...
Front Spring Hanger Placement: (when using longer than stock springs like Trail Gears)
He can't with the 3" springs. In fact, he needs to mount it 1/4" back of the front crossmember for a decent shackle angle and to have the tie rod and draglink clear each other on compression. Otherwise he'll be having to move the steering box forward.
I have all of these lifts down to a science at this point.
3" springs: 1/4" in back of the frame. Push the frame tube jig all the way forward in the body mount.
4" Springs 1/2" in front. Center the frame tube jib in the body mount
5" springs 3/4" in front. Center the frame tube jib in the body mount
I have all of these lifts down to a science at this point.
3" springs: 1/4" in back of the frame. Push the frame tube jig all the way forward in the body mount.
4" Springs 1/2" in front. Center the frame tube jib in the body mount
5" springs 3/4" in front. Center the frame tube jib in the body mount
06-07-2010, 08:46 PM
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I'm running my hanger flush with the frame. I pushed my shackle tube jigs as far forward in the body mount pocket as I could. This resulted in a pretty close to 45* shackle angle. It rides soft and the I have a lot of droop with it set up like this. I've heard that the closer to 90* you go with the shackle the stiffer the ride is - within all respects.
If you were to use stock length springs and move the hanger forward, I think the shackle would be too perpendicular, especially if you had the shackle tube in the center of the body mount.
If you were to use stock length springs and move the hanger forward, I think the shackle would be too perpendicular, especially if you had the shackle tube in the center of the body mount.
06-07-2010, 08:47 PM
#6
see post #7
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post51103735
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post51103735
Keep in mind that the guy who wrote all of the instructions for the SAS kits is Chris Geiger. He wrote them when he was at All-Pro originally, then copy and pasted them when he was at Marlin, and now at Trail-Gear.
They are outdated and with the slight differences in each spring, the measurements change.
FWIW, the 3" TG springs are much shorter than the 4's and 5's, so in order to get the decent shackle angle you want you need to alter your install.
Here are the rules I follow for what works with my installs on the 3" springs:
On a 86-95 IFS Truck or 4runner:
For 3" springs, mount the new spring hanger 1/4" back of flush with the factory front crossmember. Shackle tube jigs need to slide all the way forward into the body mount. This will allow the steering rods to barely clear and allow for a 30* shackle angle. Trimming at the front of the body mounts may be necessary to allow the front shackles to fully droop and not contact the front of the body mount itself.
On a 84-85 with the new spring hanger it may require moving it further back for a decent shackle angle since the frame tube is centered in the body mount from the factory. This is why I normally always recommend going with the 4" springs instead. Especially considering that the 4's usually settle more than the 3's and IMO work MUCH better overall for both street and offroad driving.
Now, the 4" and 5" springs is a different ball game. The shackle tube jigs get centered in the body mount. On the 4's move the spring hanger 1/2" forward of the front crossmember. And, on the 5's move it 3/4". This will allow the crossover steering to clear, and still give you the desired shackle angle you want.
The rear install is another one that needs updating. The install instructions tell you to move the leaf spring hanger at the frame forward 6" on the early 84-88 trucks and 84-89 4runner. However, from my experience, its wrong. I mount that hanger forward 7" on the 5" rear kits, and 6-1/2" forward on the 4" kits. I do this because as the rear tire compresses and moves back under compression, it will contact rear of the wheel well before its fully stuffed. However, with the new location, it will allow for a 35" tire to complete stuff into the rear wheel well with no rubbing and no trimming required. 37s do require trimming on the 4runners, but the pickups seem to be okay.
******Here is my disclosure on this*********
Do NOT take these measurments as gospel. Even after doing as many of these kits as I have, I don't just burn a hanger on without checking angles. I still tack weld everything and check my angles prior to final welding. So, the "measure twice, cut once" rule of thumb still applies. But, if you follow the measurements I just gave, then you should be able to immediately finish weld the stuff without moving anything.
Also, Russ is a little off on the shackle angle you should have when checking things. 15-20* back is what you want when you have it all tacked and before the springs settle. You do NOT want it vertical at this point. Russ' is vertical because he has no drivetrain, interior, dash or anything else installed into the rig.
They are outdated and with the slight differences in each spring, the measurements change.
FWIW, the 3" TG springs are much shorter than the 4's and 5's, so in order to get the decent shackle angle you want you need to alter your install.
Here are the rules I follow for what works with my installs on the 3" springs:
On a 86-95 IFS Truck or 4runner:
For 3" springs, mount the new spring hanger 1/4" back of flush with the factory front crossmember. Shackle tube jigs need to slide all the way forward into the body mount. This will allow the steering rods to barely clear and allow for a 30* shackle angle. Trimming at the front of the body mounts may be necessary to allow the front shackles to fully droop and not contact the front of the body mount itself.
On a 84-85 with the new spring hanger it may require moving it further back for a decent shackle angle since the frame tube is centered in the body mount from the factory. This is why I normally always recommend going with the 4" springs instead. Especially considering that the 4's usually settle more than the 3's and IMO work MUCH better overall for both street and offroad driving.
Now, the 4" and 5" springs is a different ball game. The shackle tube jigs get centered in the body mount. On the 4's move the spring hanger 1/2" forward of the front crossmember. And, on the 5's move it 3/4". This will allow the crossover steering to clear, and still give you the desired shackle angle you want.
The rear install is another one that needs updating. The install instructions tell you to move the leaf spring hanger at the frame forward 6" on the early 84-88 trucks and 84-89 4runner. However, from my experience, its wrong. I mount that hanger forward 7" on the 5" rear kits, and 6-1/2" forward on the 4" kits. I do this because as the rear tire compresses and moves back under compression, it will contact rear of the wheel well before its fully stuffed. However, with the new location, it will allow for a 35" tire to complete stuff into the rear wheel well with no rubbing and no trimming required. 37s do require trimming on the 4runners, but the pickups seem to be okay.
******Here is my disclosure on this*********
Do NOT take these measurments as gospel. Even after doing as many of these kits as I have, I don't just burn a hanger on without checking angles. I still tack weld everything and check my angles prior to final welding. So, the "measure twice, cut once" rule of thumb still applies. But, if you follow the measurements I just gave, then you should be able to immediately finish weld the stuff without moving anything.
Also, Russ is a little off on the shackle angle you should have when checking things. 15-20* back is what you want when you have it all tacked and before the springs settle. You do NOT want it vertical at this point. Russ' is vertical because he has no drivetrain, interior, dash or anything else installed into the rig.
Last edited by dropzone; 06-08-2010 at 01:12 PM. Reason: added the quote
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06-08-2010, 02:02 PM
#8
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I have everything planned out for what i want for a sas eventually, and how i will do it. And didnt ask any questions. Just started by reading through all the sas build up threads.
Not trying to be a jackhole, but just letting ya know why it was moved
06-08-2010, 02:07 PM
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Great tip! Also along those lines, make sure you have your caster angle set to what you want before you weld the shock hoops on. If you weld the hoops on and then decide to add a 3* caster wedge, your bottom shock mount will be at a different angle then the top. Not a big deal if you are going with a small shim, but anything large could prove to be troublesome.
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