schil01-camper

As part of a broader effort to get a little more out of my ‘87 22RE, I’m considering a cleaning or replacement of my 1987 single hole fuel injectors. I’ve heard that upgrading to a set of bosh type 4-hole injectors (i.e. FlameThrower type) could potentially give me a noticeable improvement over stock. Am I wasting my time? I've seen generally positive posts about upgraded injectors, but also indications that it isn't going to do much for me.

I’m trying to get a little more power at high revs in order to make it over typical freeway hills. I’m running a stock 1987 22re in a Sunrader camper (pickup base with dually 2WD wheels in the back). It’s an auto trans and I have slightly smaller tires so I’m doing about 60 mph when speedo says 64. It’s generally running well and I can manage about 60 mph on the highway pretty easily when fully loaded and I get about 13 MPG. All normal and not that bad really for what it is. But the slightest hill causes me panic and angst because I have to get the auto trans to downshift to make it up the hill, otherwise I just loose speed regardless of how much gas I give. I feel like if I can just get a little bit more then I could keep speed up modest hills at ~60 mph without the downshift. Or maybe this is all just wishful thinking and I should be glad I can make it up the hill at all with this 21' camper and a 22re...

My general plan is to do the following in this order until I achieve the needed improvement:

1. Make sure it’s tuned: new plugs, adjust valves, confirm timing at 5* BTDC (rotor, cap, wires, intake paper filter, fuel pump and fuel filter all new)
2. Clean/replace injectors (it’s got 82k miles on it and they have never been touched)
3. Improve air intake flow with LCE intake bolt-on kit or similar
4. Add headers and replace cat/can/pipes with 2.25” all the way back
5. Change the cam
6. Add an electric fan instead of mechanical one

A replacement of the auto trans with a manual one would help but that’s beyond my gumption right now. I do not know what kind of gearing I have otherwise.

Any thoughts on the injectors or the plan overall?

schil01-camper

Oh jeez, what a newbie mistake. I started this thread in the wrong section. Sigh. Can someone tell me if I should leave it, wait for a moderator to move it or what? Sorry about that.

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

Dang, auto trans AND that camper aerodynamics...yeah you need more power

I think your plan looks good, those are pretty common non-invasive upgrades people slap on their 22re's. I'm sure they will help some, but in reality this thing will be slow, but will probably never let you down
Consider doing the injectors after you do the exhaust and intake, since you'd benefit from it with being able to give more fuel. Maybe just do a cleaning of them for now.
For intake, I'd personally go with a batter/intake swap, use a free-flowing filter and make a box sealed off to use fresh air only. It's less common but there are some good pics online of people's setup.
I'm sure the cam will help a lot too. What are your cruising RPMs right now?

bootscootboogie

iTrader: (1)

Pirate4x4 has a faq section where you can find how to set your AFM to run rich and use a different spark plug to burn it... I don't think it adds much.

schil01-camper

I don't know my RPMs as I don't have a tach. It' s not really high at 60 mph but really jumps of course when I have to drop back a gear to get up a hill. I know I'll never get a lot out of this but I'm hooping to get just enough to allow me to avoid dropping down a gear so much. Slow is ok, but too slow is a bummer for me and everyone trying to pass me...

The header and such does seem to be the best option, probably cost me $600 to $750 total (install at a local shop) if I go with a decent header cat and muffler and 2.25" pipe. The folks at LCE initially recommended a shorty header because I have some fit issues with the way things route under this camper, but if I'm going to do a header I want a proper one so I'm still looking for my best options. Gotta move my O2 sensor and upgrade it to a heated type too. Folks say to stay away from the Pace Setter stuff.

Good suggestion on just doing the injector cleaning to see what happens. If my current injectors come out and are really nasty then it's very possible that a simple cleaning will help a good bit.

For the intake I currently have a stock box that has a (small-ish) tube that pulls cold fresh air from the front beside the radiator. I was considering doing a drop-in K&N filter ($51) rather than the whole tube plus plate plus cone filter deal from LCE ($150 or $200?). I wasn't sure how much the intake would really help me overall and so my thought was the drop-in filter would be the best bang for the buck. Perhaps I'm mistaken and should really just hush up and put a proper intake on it...

I've read about the AFM adjustment but I'm hoping to stick with the more tried and tested methods before doing something like that.

bootscootboogie

iTrader: (1)

LCE headers are great. I've never owned a thorley or any cheap stuff like pacesetter, but I think you could get the pacesetter and just "adjust" a felpro exhaust manifold gasket to fit it. That's not something I've tried personally, but every time I hear someone complain about the cheap gasket that comes with it I can never understand why they don't just buy a better gasket itself? Still half price.

old87yota

Wow! I think you do better up hills than I do with an empty 2wd..... I got to work on that.

I would be careful replacing the stock mechanical fan for an electric one. The stock fan does take some power away form the engine but it also moves A LOT of air to keep the engine cool. From what I have read here, most electric fans do not move as much air and you could risk overheating. I think if you find a powerful fan in the right set up, you could see some improvements.

schil01-camper

I have little experience with headers and so I may be buying out of my league with a LCE or Thorley, but regardless of which brand, I'd prefer to find one that will actually fit due to my odd routing. That's been the biggest challenge so far. Worst case is I have to find a good welder to make it all work.

For the air intake I have a somewhat unusual stock setup (see below). I already have a hose grabbing fresh cold air and although the diameter isn't all that big I figured that the filter itself would be the biggest restriction and so simply replacing that with K&N and leaving the existing tubing is one easy/cheaper option. The larger tube diameter and more surface area of the cone filter - will that add a noticeable improvement over a drop in K&N for my setup?


Thanks for the comment on the fan old87yota, I'm not really that keen on doing the fan swap so it's pretty low on my list. Your comment lowers that priority a bit more. Hopefully one of the other mods will get me over the hump so I'll never even get to that issue.

schil01-camper

I gave LC Engineering a call to get more info on header fitting. The person there said that because there are so many variations with the motorhome bodies with 22re and auto trans that it is very difficult to say if the long style headers will fit and thus they recommend the "shorty" style headers for this application. (headers are not returnable if they don't fit...) he said the performance difference was 'minimal' compared the the longer styles. Whether or not this is true, I may have no other option except the shorty for practical reasons. He said the key is the larger tubes all the way back and not the length before the collector. If indeed this is the case then there are quite a few shorter ones to choose from out there and it will really be dependent on the muffer shop to make it all work (and get the O2 sensor port in a reasonable spot).

toiyodah4WD

I don't have the 22RE but my suggestion is advance timing and run 93 octane (a must or you will ping your engine apart.) I don't know the specs for reasonable advance of timing on 4cyl. You can't do the Flamethrower on a pre '89 Toyota as far as I know. I did the upgrade on my '94 3.0 and am happy with results, although I run rich. I'd say cleaning or replacing with stock will get you a bit of better performance. Also, check the EGR system, you have low miles, but carbon build up (once again I don't know the 22RE) does affect engine performance.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Just what is your end game ??

A trip every now and then or 40,000 miles in the next few months??

Myself lots of weight Auto Trans Air dynamics of a Sail

Engine when fresh close to 120 Hp

If you really want to keep this Engine Know building Horse power in these is all in the head and very expensive for horse power gained

Added fuel does you no good if your not getting more air in and the exhaust out

Some good head work New oversize valves and some porting and polishing most likely start with a new head rather then your old one .

At this point you may as well just rebuild the bottom end

since your this far into it

It all comes down to what your use is myself I think your beating a dead horse

For the cost of the upgrades and the little they get you I might research a 3.4 swap bone stock about 50 horsepower more then your built 22re

Electric Fans if because of a engine swap there is no other way Otherwise for the most they are nothing but problems and they really don`t save any thing.

Unless you plan to carry a extra complete electric fan with all the controls one might really get tired of the Walmart parking lot waiting for parts to show up.

schil01-camper

Hi wyoming9, you make some excellent points. I appreciate your time considering this project.

My end game is to put about 1000 to 2000 miles per year on this camper over the next 5 to 7 years. I've refurbished the camper part itself to the point that it is in really good condition (functional as a spare bedroom for guests!). I'd like to keep the engine going well enough over the next 5 to 15 thousand miles so we can take it out 5 or 6 trips per year and have it be reliable. Pretty modest goals and so i have a pretty modest budget accordingly.

For about $1000+ and maybe a week's time I can go through my list and see what modest improvements I can achieve. I agree that I may be beating a dead horse and in the end I may gain little for my efforts. Given my modest goals overall you have a point that perhaps I'm over-doing it. However, if I can sink the money on the header (labor is mostly with the local shop), do the injectors, get some more air on the intake and achieve a noticeable gain, well then I think it's worth it. I doubt I'd get as far as the cam or fan swap I listed in the first post. It would be a bummer to finish all of that and still have a slow driving brick, but that will be my lesson to learn I guess.

"For the cost of the upgrades and the little they get you I might research a 3.4 swap bone stock about 50 horsepower more then your built 22re"
This is something I have considered. My hesitation is that the process would require a lot of learning to be able to do it right, or perhaps finding the right person with the know-how. But it would also take a few pennies in investment. Too much for me at the moment to consider.

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

There is a guy on here or TTORA that has thrown a 3.4 in a similar camper to yours. It actually moves pretty well.
If you are intent on sticking with the 22re (depending on how many miles you're at) you might consider rebuilding at the same time you are doing the other stuff...JMO..
a little 4 banger moving a house isn't gonna get from pt a to pt b too quick

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

To me a 22re and automatic transmission is to weak to pull that much weight. For an increase in power, I would throw in a 4 speed transmission. I have never converted an automatic to standard but it would not concern me. The biggest problem is finding out which wire to ground out in the computer to make the computer think the truck is always in neutral. I have read of it being done.

I have drove a runner with the 22re that had the LCE performance head and headers on it and what a difference it made on the horsepower on it. It is on a build by HighLuxs build thread. I have driven this truck and it is the quickest runner I have ever driven if you want to go thru his thread and see what he did to it. https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...k-home-260142/ It is possible to wake a 22re up.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Ok for your use I would just keep the engine tuned perfect .

Live with it take my time enjoy my trips

It is bad enough to drive the speed limit and have every vehicle pass you at least 20mph faster.

Have you done a compression test to see just what you have to work with.

Are you having problems with poor performance now that you think the injectors need replaced??

Like they like fuel into the engine when shut off ??

External fuel leaks ??

I have at least 2 of these engines over 200,000 miles on the original injectors. just to compare with your mileage

This is one of those things it is your vehicle have at it.

I have to laugh it never changes over the years we all for the most want to go fast or have more power only after we have spent thousands of dollars doing these upgrades.

As one goes down the road at 140 mph plus do we think How can I stop!!!

schil01-camper

dropzone: "a little 4 banger moving a house isn't gonna get from pt a to pt b too quick"
Terrys87: "To me a 22re and automatic transmission is to weak to pull that much weight."

Both of these comments are true and put this whole issue into perspective. Yes, it's rather absurd to be running a 22re in that camper. It just isn't right. I get that. The right thing to do would be to put a 3.4 and/or a manual trans, but unfortunately this would almost certainly exceed my know-how, time and/or budget. I would really like to go this route but it's unrealistic for me to start such a big project right now unless I can offload the engine install to someone else. Meanwhile I think that if I can put a modest time and money investment into the current engine then it might give me just enough boost to lumber down the road a little better. The biggest cost would be the header and exhaust replacement.

This was my previous project vehicle - a '65 VW bus (also a full camper inside ). I got it when I was 18 and drove it for over 20 years (many of those years it was my daily driver). Clearly I'm cursed to have under-powered vehicles. I'm not sure who would win a race between the camper and the bus... I traded it to a youngster who has already driven it from coast to coast. Taking the engine out of the bus was easy - 4 bolts, a few wires and it wheels out the back on a skateboard in 30 minutes. Pulling the 22re and doing the work needed to install a 3.4 is just beyond my skill-set unfortunately. Moving from the VW engine to the 22re was kind of a steep learning curve for me. The VW engine was so simple. Air cooled, no computer, no sensors. Just really basic. The 22re, by comparison, is vastly more complex. I'm still in the learning phase.

Given the limited time I can afford to commit to this project overall I'm still thinking that the plan of improving air intake with clean injectors and larger exhaust is not unrealistic, but now y'all got me thinking about it more... I could just end up adding band-aid after band-aid and never quite reach my goal of simply limping down the road at 60 over modest hills without so much downshifting. It's so tempting to think that if I just slapped a header on her that I'd be done! It's too cold outside to do anything right now so I guess I have some time to think about it....

wyoming9 has a good point: just keep it as-is (or maybe with just a few of the upgrades...), use it for what it is. Keep it tuned up perfectly and call it a day. The camper is for camping, not driving. "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without."

schil01-camper

wyoming9, I did check the compression about 1 year ago. Borrowed the tool. Stupid me, I didn't write the numbers down, but I do recall that they were all close in value and within the normal range. So compression is likely "good" or decent/average. Certainly no obvious issue there.

Why am I so zipped up about the injectors? I dunno actually. No, there is no actual obvious problem with them. It's just an area that I have not looked at yet in the fuel system. I put a new pump and filter in and and the improvements were just so shocking that I thought I should also make sure the injectors were not a limiting factor in fuel delivery. After reading the procedures to replace them it doesn't look so bad and maybe the simple thing to do is to take them out and inspect and clean them (I have a sonic cleaning bath). Perhaps I can pull off my EGR and clean it up at the same time. Based on how the stock injectors look I can decide whether to get new ones or maybe send mine off to have them refurbished if necessary. I was thinking that perhaps newer injector types (i.e. 4-hole bosch) would give me more even and slightly higher fuel flow rates with a better atomization efficiency (which would only be beneficial if I had more air flow from intake and exhaust). It's not all that expensive to replace the injectors ($150), but if timing works out I will start with just getting them off and inspecting/cleaning first.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Battery intake swap? Not preheating the intake air nets a quantifiable performance gain, iirc you trade 1-2 mpg for 2-5 hp. Best bang for your <50$

Bigger exhaust all the way to the head will give you better heat dissipation if nothing else. So even if you can't get up hills at 60, at least you can crawl up them in summer with the AC running.i

schil01-camper

Co_94_PU: Oh I never run uphill with the AC on. That's a no-no :-) In the summer heat I've become very good at toggling the AC on and off to not loose momentum on the minor highway hills. You never knew how many hills are on the freeway until you've experienced them in a 22re powered camper.

I can't do the battery swap because I have a crazy battery compartment for the camper. There are TWO batteries, one for starting, one for deep cycle, (and the washer fluid) all crammed into the left (intake) side of the engine (it's actually going to make it significantly more difficult to get the intake plenum off). That can't be moved without great pain and suffering. A few posts previous you can see my intake hose location and AFM. The way it's set up it does look like it pulls cold air from the grill, it's just that the hose diameter and filter area are supposedly limiting. If I went with the full cone filter and larger tube intake system I would likely need to fabricate some kind of baffle to make sure only cold air was getting to the intake. I'm still strongly considering leaving it stock and just putting the K&N drop in filter in the existing set up.

schil01-camper

FYI, here is the wacky dual batter/washer box in the camper. It's a fiberglass insert and on the side are a bunch of charging bits (battery isolater, etc). I have to leave this where it is so I wouldn't be able to put the short tube intake mod on that side.