Gamefreakgc

Well, now I'm the one with a problem.


I needed a new water pump and being just a DIY'er and I don't have the tools to take off the pulleys and such to do it myself (much to my wallet's dismay), I had it done at a local shop. It's been running fine, no issues with power or anything like that. Makes a few small noises that are new, but no real issues.


Fast forward 3 weeks to today. My engine has a very slight ping due to the fuel and air mods so was going to retard the timing just a bit. However, I go to check timing and the mark doesn't show up at all. Puzzled, I think worse case scenario and shine it 180* opposite the timing mark on the bottom side of the engine. Yup, there it is.


What happened? How does it run completely fine but the timing mark is off a full 180*? I'm completely puzzled on this one.

Mandy Tuning

2 things,the timing light is not on cyl 1 or your harmonic balancer is gone.

captainslow

I've done the timing belt on a couple of 3vze's... if its 180 on accident it runs like crapola.

you sure its on cyl 1, you pinned the diagnostics port, and if its an adjustable timing light its on zero? or turned all the way down..

Gamefreakgc

I've checked and adjusted timing a half dozen times, so yes. I even double and triple checked my spark wire, making sure it was #1. It's not adjustable, just a basic light.


So, I think I get from what you guys are saying, my timing isn't actually 180* degrees off. Any chance you can put the pulley on upside down (180* off)? Or maybe my timing light just sucks...

hockey88fan

Harbor freight has a cheap light, I'd start there.

MudHippy

As mentioned previously, you should check to see that the harmonic balancer isn't separated.

But, just an FYI, a very slight ping is totally acceptable. And, technically, should be occuring under certain conditions.

Gevo

Just for my education guys. How does a bad harmonic balancer give a consistant 180* off result...?

Gamefreak if I saw this on my car id flip out. Lol.

MudHippy

That's a good question. I don't really know exactly how. It's just a hypothesis.

Gamefreakgc

That's what I have. Though it's worked perfectly every time, and I keep it in the foam so it doesn't get damaged since it's kinda cheap.

I think I'm going to call up the shop, the warranty their work for 30 days.

And about ping, yeah, I'm probably not hurting anything. But it's starting to occur under WOT conditions as well as light cruise conditions, so a bit too much for my liking.

Mandy Tuning

Its a common problem in most cars that harmonic balancer rubber separate and slide off slowly , it start moving a few degrees and keep moving maybe months or year until timing mark get lost.

Gamefreakgc

Except in this case, timing was spot on before timing belt. Took to shop, timing is now 180* off but runs fine.

RJR

With a V6, it can't be simply because you're on the wrong wire, since no plug fires at 180*. The firing positions are 1-0*, 2-120*, 3-240*, 4-360*, 5-480*, 6-600*, and then it starts over at 720* (2 revolutions). It's also highly unlikely that a timing light could consistently give you a flash exactly (or almost exactly) 180* off, especially as rpm varies.

Since the engine runs, it almost surely is a problem with the crankshaft pulley/harmonic balancer.

captainslow

I know on other harmonic balances, when they rebuild them and replace the rubber they have to re line up the timing marks and the key slot. Maybe the shop put on a rebuilt one that is 180 off?

Gamefreakgc

Sweet, that's exactly what I was looking for. Yeah, the timing light didn't seem like the issue since it was exactly 180* and the light appeared to work just fine.

They didn't replace it, but they might have dis-assembled more than they should have and put it together wrong.

Thanks for the help all, I think that settles it.

Gamefreakgc

All is well now.


Turns out it was both. So my timing light sucks, and was picking up the wrong wire even though I had it on #1. Had to clip it in another spot. However, the mechanic said that the old belt was so loose that the difference between the old and new would be enough to throw off the timing. After the change, my timing was off 14 degrees at 24ish! Back to 10 and back to normal. Thanks for the help.

Gevo

Lol at the timing light pickup. Funny how I just had a similar problem. Well glad you fogured it out quick. I hate sleeping with an unknown issue on my mind

MudHippy

That's not possible. There's no such thing as a loose(or stretched) timing belt. If one were ever to become loose(or stretched) over time from usage, it would start skipping teeth. Which won't ever happen(for that reason atleast). Because they stay as tight(and as short) as they need to be, until they break.