vermontoyota

Who has run studs on an aggressive tire? How big was the difference in traction in different winter and off-road conditions? How big was the difference in dry-road manners and tire-wear?

I have a set of GY Duratrac's ordered in 31X10.50. As a bargaining tool I convinced the dealer to stud them for me on his nickel. Now I am not so sure I want to get them studded, even if it is free. I drive 80mile/day for my commute and the roads are generally some of the first to be plowed so they are usually clear.

On the other hand deer season is approaching fast and I'll be logging a lot of miles on unplowed logging roads and I think the additional traction could be a benefit on hard-pack and ice. I dont mind taking them off in the spring , I just down want to tear the studs out in the first month of commuting.

Any opinions and experience is appreciated.

TubedYota

Sorry I have no experience with studded tires, I'm interested in the responses though.....

VTToy

Have you ever run studs before ? if you haven't your in for some noise ! on dry/clear pavement they'll sing a lot but then on ice they are a big help on snowy or hard pack stuff don't think they will help much ( not sure what the tire tread you are putting on looks like ) if they are a mud type tire forget it nothing will help but chains . if you are going up to some camps on some old backroads and are going slow and don't mind getting out to put tire chains on i would say go with them but just remeber you'll have to get in and out to put them on an take them off. you won't want to run them on the main roads. studs are nice but they make noise and won't last long on dry pavement. good luck !

TubedYota

Are you guys both from VT? My wife and I are lookin to move there soon......have any good info or tips? By the way is the wheelin good?

xfactor203

I can't speak to the aggressive tread issue, but I ran studs on street tires on a number of different vehicles in Alaska. They were always totally fine on pavement (slightly noisy). On ice and packed snow they helped a lot. I don't think tire wear would be affected much, but stud wear can be an issue. Carbide studs are definitely the way to go if you see much pavement.

x2 on chains being way better off pavement. Studs don't compare.

limon32

Few thoughts from me:

Studs - Only effective on ice or hard packed snow, no effect in deep/loose snow. Having said that, it is my opinion that studs are awsome for ice.

Tread compound - Tread compound makes a huge difference in ice traction, soft tires are good in ice, hard tires are slick!

Siping - Siping tires is a super cheap, very effective way to improve ice traction.


Soft and deep snow is effectively the same or similar as mud. You need open tread pattern to throw snow out of the tread to keep good traction. On the other hand, tight tread pattern with a lot of siping is best on ice, but counter to the characteristics that make a good deep snow pattern.

Having said all that, I'll tell you what i've done with good success:

My Toyota has a set of BFG winter slalom studded snow tires. They have a lot of siping and are studded. They are a great road tire for ice and moderately deep snow. The traction on ice is a great improvement over all terrains.

My Dodge diesel has a set of Kelley mud tires which started out with a single stud in the outside tread blocks with nearly no siping in the tread. I took them to the tire shop and had them siped with lots of siping. Then I took them into the auto shop at work and added a second stud to each tread block. What I ended up with is a tire that is good on ice because of the added siping and studs but also does well in the deep stuff because of the "mud" type tread that its all based on.

The Toyota came with the BFG winter tires so i'll run them tell there dead, then i plan to make up some mud tires like I did for my Dodge.

Another misconception, or point of confusion that is common is tire size for ice/snow. A narrow tire produces higher ground pressure and thus more friction which is great for driving on ice. A wider tire however will keep you more ontop of deep snow, much like a sand tire. Obviously another contradiction which will require you to decide what you will encounter most often. For a commuter I would definately recommend a narrow tire. We run Nokian studded winter tires in 245/85-16s on half ton pickups. They are a really nice tire and that size seems to work well.

vermontoyota

Thanks for the info

Limon- I think these GY Duratracs would be similar to your kelley m/ts. They are very aggressive with large lugs and voids for an A/T but they have lots and lots of siping. Thats why I am thinking of running them as strictly a snow tire. As mentioned above though, I think they'll be great in the snow with or without studs and that studs will just be good for hard pack and ice.

VTToy- never have run studs, or even a snow tire. I have never had a problem driving even in very poor conditions with A/T's. I would never turn down additional traction which is why I have ordered these tires and am contemplating studding them.

Good to know that studs shouldn't affect wear too much. Another concern is that I love getting it sideways in inclimate weather. Nothings more fun than banshing your truck around back roads perpendicular to your line of travel. I would imagine the studs wouldn't take shenanigans like that very well if there is little enough snow for them to contact pavement or frozen dirt roads.

Have you guys run chains? Can you run them on both wheels on the rear axle? I've heard they can make short work of CV's. I am going to look into getting a set at least for the rear for those days where you've just got to get to the ski hill or into the backwoods to chase a buck.

snobdds

I drive in snow and ice all winter long and I would advise against studs. Yes, they work, but not for very long. Every studded tire I've ever had, the studs only lasted for around 5,000 miles. Then they would have to be restudded and that is super cheap because they have to dig them out. Also, in Wyoming there is a new law against studded tires because people would run them all year long and the roads were getting trashed. They make some really good winter tires these days and in my opinion...they are better than studded snow tires.

In Steamboat Springs Colorado there is a winter driving school. They basically teach you how to drive in snow for your specific vehicle. One of the first things they preach, above all else, control of your right foot will control the vehicle better than any type of tire. And what do you control with your right foot…tire spin. They took us to a large hill and showed us how to get to the top of it with little effort. The trick…very little gas and when the vehicle started to spin out…apply the brake and gas at the same time to regain control. I actually make it up the hill in 2WD with light throttle and my foot slightly on the brake the whole way up.

Try it…you will be amazed.

chubbydude

I drive in snow and ice all winter long and I love my studs. I have the winter tires below but also have them studded. I don't know about the other poster, but modern studs should last the life of the tire since that is how they are designed to wear. I do not find them noisy at all, and I am glad I had them studded. They do seem noisy in small cars which have more road noise. Around here heavy truck traffic grooves the roads, not studs to any large degree.

If your driving only occasionally sees hard-pack snow/ice and black ice then I may not get them studded. But if you do see a lot and also do a lot of country/bush road diving then for sure. I do not feel safe in any vehicle in the winter that does not have a dedicated winter tire when conditions are bad.

http://www.tbcprivatebrands.com/mult...ine.asp?id=247

Similar to the Cooper M&S.

Matt16

By braking you're creating a Limited Slip affect on your spinning tire (quickly spinning tire does more work on the brake pads than a slowly spinning tire).

limon32

I'll add another couple thoughts:

CHAINS: I have run chains a few times however it was always in a car. I have chains for both my trucks and i've never found snow deep enough that four wheel drive and decent tires didn't suffice. Again for ice, my tires are siped and studded so I don't need the chains for packed snow either. Basically, if you have decent winter tires and a 4x4 I wouldn't bother with the chains.

STUDS: There seems to be very strict camps here in Alaska on studs or no studs. I prefer them, I run them on two trucks and a car. They do wear out after 2 to 4 years depending on how often you drive them on bare pavement. I usually wait as long as possible to start putting them on, put them on the girlfriends car first then my commuter, then my tow rig last. The snow locks in here eventually and we'll spend 4 or more months with solid ice on the road so I don't have to worry about too much dry pavement driving. Getting tires re-studded is an option, instead everyone around here runs them until they start loosing or wearing off studs, then they pull them and use them for their summer tread and buy new winter tires the next winter. This way your only buying winter tires. I have been doing this for about seven years on my commuter car and haven't bought summer tires that entire time.

Like I said above, there is also a lot of people up here that run studless winter tires like Blizzaks and swear by them. I had a set on a Honda civic for a few months but never got to try them in snow/ice before the girlfriend rolled the car dodging a dear. THey did have great traction on wet pavement which is something that studded tires don't do well on, so if you might see a lot of wet pavement, black ice and occassional snow then a studless may be a better option for you.

Hope I didn't confuse you further!

vermontoyota

This thread is a year old but I did end up getting those DuraTrac's in the Studded variety. They worked really well and handled anything I could through at them, except a couple jaunts through 3' + deep wind packed in my field. Had to get rescued by the roomates' Jeep ....


My only qualm with the tire was that it took 4 trips back to the tire store to get them rebalanced and my rims are fine. Not sure if anyone else has had that experience, but if you get this tire I'd rotate 2x per oil change. if you live as far from the tire place as I do its easier.

Waylayer

You run those studs in summer on trails? Im hoping to run studs this winter on the yota, (got em on the subbie) got BF At's on now but probaly going to need a studded snow tire. Run stock rims studded snows in winter and steelies and at's in summer.

kevtek

I used to run studs on the soobie but went non studded after having the change them after 2.5 winters(put em on first good snowfall, off when temps reach 35+).

Aside from running into a curb across black ice in a freezing rain storm on the taconic 2 years ago, traction on snow is same if not better with non studded hakas.

IMO studs do nothing unless there on ice. Good siped tires are much more effective.

For my old 86, I ran BFG ATs year round, 250lbs of sand in bed, chains in cab, drive slow, and didn't had any major problems. We'll see how the T does fairly soon...

Vermontoyota - I see your truck all the time. Hope your tires last you awhile, let us know. BTW, who balanced your tires?

limon32

Great update on this post, i've been thinking those Goodyears will be the next snow tire on my Dodge Ram 2500. I just had a set of Hankook IPikes put on the toy and they are AWESOME! Basically the compound of a non-studded, highly siped winter tire, with studs. Lots of folks actually run them around here without the studs, but I like the studs.

99blackSE

iTrader: (1)

I've been running my studded AT2s for about a month now. Braking is pretty good and traction with the locker is excellent.

Alex 400

I have maxxis bighorns with studs on my truck and they work really well. the tread is relatively is great for loose and compact snow. They clean out well. Some guy on hear has them on his 4runner and he has gotten over 50000 miles out them and they still got tread. I run them at about 28-33 psi when there is a lot of snow and the traction is great. If i was going to get them without studs i would definitely get them siped.

hilandfrog

I had the blizzaks on a tundra for a few years, the "soft" good snow/ ice compound didn't last as long as studs did on the previous winter tires.I personally like the studs, we live 6 miles up a dirt road and 32 odd miles from town.
Studs make more noise and give a funny tap dancing feel at times but I like them more for bad weather than the "soft" stud-less compound tires.

Repo

rattlewagon

I prefer a non studded tire.

yotarover

run them i had some high traction studded tires on the rear they were stock size. worked perfect in the mud,snow,ice just about anywhere even ran them up to the point i switched to some janky 31's