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Problem: vehice tracks straight but wheel slowly turns to the right to 90° without affecting tracking. Has responsive steering toe is 1/8" in(spec) had same problem before new tie rods inner and outer.
Thinking steering shaft/intermediate shaft...am I on the right track?
2nd gen yota 4x4 pickup 94 142k
Thinking of isolating components this weekend. Detach pitman and check steering shaft to gearbox.make sure that's true. Can't replicate wheel being off 90° after turning the tires or using the steering wheel when front axle is in the air....anyone?
So driving down the road you can slowly turn the wheel and the tires don't turn? What if you do it quick? Normally a steering problem like that wouldn't care if it's slow or fast, if anything fast would make it act worse.
Something has to be slipping/skipping, like rubber from intermediate shaft to steering box, steering box skipping gears internally, or pitman arm. Do you feel anything while it's "slipping"? Skipping gears should be pretty easy to feel and the steering wheel would continue to get further and further off center over time. Bad rubber would likely go about 90 degrees before it hit and back the other way, always stopping at the fail safe pins. Pitman arm would probably act pretty similar to the skipping gears with less gear feel. You kind of need someone to turn the wheel slowly to cause the problem, while someone else is looking at the parts to see what's slipping. Might be a simple loose bolt on the steering wheel too.
Hey thanks for the response. So it's smooth turning and I had an operator at the wheel and checked shaft and pitman, no luck I'm wondering if I messed up the toe, I only did passengers side tie rod I&O it's 1/8th inch in in the front from the back, from my understanding that's spec. The passengers tie rods have more threads exposed than drivers so could it be i just messed it up? Im under the assumption that theyll never be exactly the same amount of threads on both sides. Also it did this before i replaced passengers side tie rods.Just ran it again tonight and same thing no pull but always gors cocked to the right after a turn and always right. loves to find90* to the right... should I just go take it in for an alignment?
When the suspension is unloaded i can't replicate it so I lowered it back down and loaded the suspension and with it running had operator turn lock to lock. Couldn't replicate it either. There does seem to be more than 2 inches of travel before it responds either direction but not much more than 2 inches. I can only replicate it when driving. Fast turning slow turning doesn't matter. Maybe a video this weekend if I get time...would love to save the 100$ on an alignment up here
Not sure where "up here" is, but in Michigan, an alignment was like $40 on my Corolla. If there's no slipping and such, an alignment is kind of needed after replacing a tie rod end, you can get it close or do a "parking lot alignment", but the machines they use are much more accurate.
Tie rods often times can't be aligned based on the number of threads as most are made slightly different since that section doesn't really matter for the design, more threaded surface is actually stronger. You'd want to measure center to center for the mounting points before and after. From memory, the parking lot alignment is something along the lines of adjust the steering wheel straight on a flat surface, then adjust one of the wheels straight, and match the other wheel to it by measuring front and back side of the rim the best you can. Drive forward after the adjustment and check for a pull, adjust as needed. My dad did this on my 86 pickup after a drag link replacement, and it was good enough I didn't need a real alignment, but on my Tacoma he got it close enough to not pull, but it still had tire wear problems, and the steering wasn't right, so it needed a real alignment.
Wow very informational thank you for taking the time for writing that up! Yeah it was driveway, suppose it just needs an alignment then. Probably needed it before i started on it. Figured i could have at least reduced the steering wheel problem im having :/ Up here is Alaska, small town, oReilly is the cheapest place it's 90$ before taxes. Guess it's going in soonish then. I have a whole suspension kit here now that I'll install first tho, bj's upper n lower (although only the drivers upper has ANY play in it), pitman, idler, and tie rods. Just do it all before I send it in then. I have NEVER encountered symptoms like this, that's why I'm hesitant to send it in for an alignment...but maybe that's all it needs...I mean NO PULL, oh well will update with progress when it happens incase someone else runs into this. Until then ALL and ANY OTHER checks towards components are welcomed and much appreciated. Thanks again YotaTechs, u guys make this place what it is!
Just a bit more on my Tacoma, I wore out a set of tires in 15k miles from the bad alignment that I mentioned. I was being cheap, which in the long run I wore out $250 worth of tires. The truck didn't pull at all, drove fairly well, just a little "over steer" meaning the steering was more sensitive than it should be. I was planning to swap the ADD hub design for manual lockers which requires swapping out hubs.
Alaska is a bit more north than me =), now I see why the price is pretty expensive, not a whole lot of businesses around to compete on prices and the fact getting things transported there (machines etc) isn't cheap.
Not trying to go against my own advice, but if the steering wheel is the only thing off, you could adjust both sides equal amounts to center the steering wheel again. I'd say to keep a good eye on the tires, the front tires will show signs of a bad alignment fairly quickly (chopping, inside vs outside excess wear etc). Generally it's worth the investment to prolong the life of the tires. Rear tires don't really see the wear from the alignment being off, but it's advisable to rotate your tires from time to time (for equal wear). Of course I didn't to the rotation since I knew the fronts were chopping and wearing much faster than they should. Still have the rear tires like new lol.
I'm still not quite sure how your steering wheel can turn 90deg and the tires be straight. I'd check your steering gearbox very carefully, could the gears be so worn that it slips and puts your center point over to the right?? Honestly it would be a waste to get that alignment and the problem still exist. Well, I guess not exactly, you probably need the alignment anyway, but I'd still want to understand how this is happening because depending on what the problem is you wouldn't want have to get it re-aligned after fixing it.
90 degrees is more than just a tie-rod/toe adjustment problem. Plus, the fact that it is changing while you drive suggests something is slipping in the linkage between the steering wheel and the steering gear. I don't know that I'd drive it in that condition very far or very fast. You need to seriously inspect the steering column and the gear box before you kill yourself or someone else. Loss of control is a distinct possibility.
Took the consideration s gotta be something more than toe. NEVER RAN into a problem like this. Just checked out the pitman and it seems off to me and rusty as heck. I'm worried about the box spines to pitman, are they compromised?
Did it work? Thats me head towards rear with camera above me looking at bottom of putman, see the alignment marks and then the positioning of the pitman into the linkage...it looks a few teeth off would that give me a false toe and with me adjusting toe would that equal my 90*?
Last edited by dropzone; 04-26-2017 at 12:30 PM.
Reason: censor picked up on language
Installed new pitman with marks lined up. I have unequal turns from right lock to left lock with drag link disconnected. Looking for some help. Do I need to pull pitman again and find box center? ( pitman disconnected turn left count, turn right count divide by 2?)
04-02-2017, 02:21 PM
