rawfeels

my truck has been having some starting problems over the last 5 days. its gotten worse to where it wont start now. below is a list of things ive checked already. the truck is my daily and since it doesnt work..i had to walk to work in 25degree weather!

truck is a 1991 3.0 5sp 4x4.

it started as an intermittent start. usually itd be a single click followed by the hum of the fuel pump. then after a few tries it would start as normal. it progressed over 3 days to starting as if the battery were near dead. sort of bogging as it started if that makes sense. at that point i thought it would work when i jumped it. turns out thats a fluke though...as it only worked off a jump 1x.

stuff ive looked at.
-took the starter off and tested it at autozone. the gear came out when they put power to it and it apparently passed their test.

-cleaned the connections to the started and replaced the little wire that connects to it. also wound up putting tape over a small piece of burned rubber over the battery cabling (the cables themselves appeared fine).

-tested the battery. i got 12.4 volts.

- tested the alternator (without taking it off. they said it was fine. i didnt think the alternator was bad..so i didnt bother taking it off just yet to get it tested

-checked the started relay. the FSM has it looking like a cross and says terminals 1-3 have conintuity and 2-5 dont (or something to that effect). my relay was square shape different from the FSM for some reason). however, the left 2 terminals have continuity and the right 2 dont. i assumed this is ok because i cant find anything on google about the numbering of the terminals in the square shape.

-replaced the sparkplug wires and sparkplugs that were found to be old during my search for ground wires.

-looked for ground wires. i only found 2. one connected to the alternator via some wiring from the headlights (?). the ground wire connects from the manifold to the fender on the drivers side. The other was behind the block by the coolant temp sensor. they looked old...but in ok shape.

-i also checked the coolant temp sensor because i had an issue with intermittent starts about 1 year ago and that sensor was bad. this time...it looked ok.


thats everything ive done so far. i havent checked the clutch switch yet because i dont know the process. maybe thats it. BUT....im going to go ahead and say that whatever is causing it is going to be some sort of minute idiotic thing i'm over looking.

please help.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I would almost have to say it is a ground issue

as far as I know the alternator grounds through the bracket bolts.

At this point I would get or have made two new ground cables one to one of the M6 bolts on the inner fender.

The other to the block a M10 or 12 bolt the block not the frame!!

getting them as heavy as practical I pretty much use #01 welding cable short pieces not good for much else.:jessica:

It does not hurt to look at the battery terminals nice and clean no corrosion and tight.:jessica:

with the onset of the cooler temps your cables and connections need to be in top shape.

snobdds

I was having a issue like that a few years back. I looked at the ground wire from the battery to the block and the wire sheilding was wore through in some places. Replaced the ground wire with a new OEM one from the dealer and have never had a problem again.

rawfeels

snobdds" ground wire from the block to the battery? you mean the negative cable?

my battery terminals are clean and the contacts are about as tight as theyll go. the positive cable has a connection the battery (obviously) and a connection spliced into the fuse box wiring.

the negative cable has a ground wire to the inner fender just above the fuse box and it connects down to the block near the starter.

judging by the wiring hack job the previous owner did, i imagine something is screwy for sure. maybe i'll take a look at the wire splice from the positive terminal to the fuse box?

a biger question would be then...how many grounds should there be? and from where to where?

right now ive got the negative terminal of the battery to the inner fender (the other side leads to the block).

from the exhaust manifold to the inner fender (tied into the alternator it looks like)

and from somewhere behind the engine block to near the brake booster

snobdds

Yes ground wire also means the (-) negative wire.

There should be a ground from the negative terminal that splits into two places. A short wire that goes to the inner fender by the terminal and a wire that goes to the block. Toyotas are run off a "switched ground" electrical system. Which means everything has constant 12V running to it, when a switch is flicked...the ground is created thus compleating the circuit. In this sort of system, ground wires are critical there in good condition.

Check that ground wire coming off the (-) battery terminal at both end locations. Look for anything unusual and it's a good idea to clean the mounting locations and reattach.

Bigblock

If it were a ground wire (off the batt. to the block)It would burn the little ground wires all over the truck. Gotta be the relay or the contacts in the starter. You can test the clutch switch by mashing the clutch start button. You really should use it instead of mashing the clutch anyway,because you have zero oil pressure when cranking your engine.The clutch pushes on the thrust bearings inside the engine at approx. 1200 pounds of force.

rawfeels

after work i checked on the negative cable again to double check the connections. i put some sand paper to the connections and to the battery to get any grime i might not see. i also wound up fixing the connection from the fuse box next to the battery to the positive battery cable and tightened everything down.

the search continues and nothing happened. Still just a click and a hum.

BigBlock: the contacts to the starter looked fine. i cleaned them before re-installing it on monday.

Do you know how the terminals are named on the square starter relay? the FSM has the starter relay terminals in the shape of a cross. my starter relay terminals are in a square.

Like so...(FSM vs. Mine)...(EDIT: dang..the forum wont let me draw out the terminal differences. the FSM has terminals in the shape of a cross. My real life one...has them in a square 2x2)


I got continuity on the left side terminals but not on the right and not when tested diagonally. the FSM says its version should have continuity on the top and bottom pieces. I suppose i can just buy a new one and put it in...may as well at this point.

I'm a little confused about what you mean with the clutch switch. the switch is that white button that gets mashed in when you press on the clutch? Or is that white button...the clutch start button? I'll have to check the FSM again on that one i guess. perhaps the clutch switch is in the fuse box next to the starter relay and the button is the button.


thanks for the help all. the search continues! today i used plenty of scarfs for my walk to work

TNRabbit

Remove, clean & replace all grounds (body/fram/engine), and replace the starter contacts:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...shtml#EasyTest