Smelliottkuhn

90 4runner 22re (All stock no mods) 4x4 5speed -- 190,000mi
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So I took my truck in for an exhaust manifold leak--got that fixed--was missing a stud, manifold was not warped--new gasket sealed up fine.

However, the mechanic has informed me that the exhaust rockers on #'s 3 and 4 are shot, and that the loabs on the cam are worn.

He wants to replace the exhaust rocker shaft, the two rocker arms, and the cam. He is quoting me at $750 parts/labor.

What questions can I ask, to make sure this needs to be done?

Assuming it does need to be done, after reading several threads here I have been pointed in the direction of engnbldr's 268 cam. Based on what I am being told needs to be replaced, would you all recommend anything else at this time?


Thanks in advance for any info.

xxxtreme22r

don't just replace 1 or 2 rockers arms, replace them all, only use toyota OEM rocker arms with new toyota OEM adjuster nuts and screws. DO NOT use aftermarket, EB's 268 is a good cam.

Also looks to me both #4 intake and exhaust rockers overheated to me.

On a side note, changing the cam and rockers is easy. And can be done with the head on if careful. But since the head bolts have to come out it's very critical that the head does not move in the process.

fierohink

You can't really tell from the picture if the cam and rockers are shot. If he's going soully on discoloration, then the parts might not be bad. If you still have the valve cover off, stick your finger down on the cam lobes for #3 and #4 exhaust. If they are still really smooth they might be okay.

Now the PO of my truck failed to adjust the valves and let them get way out of whack which caused my #4 intake to abuse the cam lobe, wear through the hardened finish, and wreck the cam and rocker. This was evident by a big rough flat spot on the pad of the rocker and all the shiny finish worn off the lobe of the cam.

fierohink

^^^^ +1 on the overheating

But that could have been an old problem that was resolved and just didn't get the rockers replaced.

fierohink

On a side note, why are you replacing these? I know you said the mechanic says they're shot, but were you having a problem? Did you have trouble keeping the valves adjusted? Was there a valve clatter that you were trying to solve? Or is the mechanic trying to be pro-active?

fierohink

When I did mine, to fix the fubar'd rocker and replace the cam with an EB Torkr, I disassembled the whole valve train assembly, cleaned everything and checked for wear. Since the only issue I had was the hard finish wore off and destroyed the one rocker I was able to replace just the one rocker, adjuster, and lock nut. YMMV. I you go that route, an adjuster, nut, and rocker should be less than $50. A cam from EB will set you back around $100 with shipping. I believe the headbolts are torque to yeild so they should be replaced = $100. Plus maybe 4-6 hours shop time.

As was mentioned above, you will be removing the headbolts to get to the cam and is crucial that the head doesn't move or break its seal with the block. If it does you are looking at a headgasket replacement and doing all the labor for this job again and then some.

fierohink

If it were me looking to have this done, I would bite the bullet now and just have the head pulled, cleaned, decked, and reinstalled with a new head gasket. You might have another 4-6 hours of shop time invested if you go that route but you make sure that nothing else is wrong with the valves in question, by getting the head decked you boost compression which will give you more hp (believe me I noticed when I went from a decked head back to OE height when I replaced my head after the water pump went and I over heated), and you start fresh with all new parts.

Would you give a worn out track runner new shoes? Or would you invest in a young athlete?

Smelliottkuhn

There was valve clatter that sounded something awful--the sound was coupled with the exhaust manifold leak.

Smelliottkuhn

What do you think about Engnbldr's Street RV (I heard he will ship with the cam already installed).

fierohink

He will ship a complete head, but you don't know if you need that yet. The head is seperate from the rocker assembly.

What your mechanic said was bad was this:


it is part of this:


which doesn't come with this:

fierohink

I run the 268c cam in a stock replacement EB head. Looking back I should have bought the upgraded head with the o/s s.s. valves based on putting a freer flowing exhaust on now. Oh well, live and learn.

fierohink

If you buy a replacement head and cam from EB you will still have to buy the rocker parts that are bad.

If they are in fact bad.

Smelliottkuhn

Thanks for the break down. The truck is still at the mechanic. I called and the said that the pads on the 3 & 4 exhaust rocker were worn down and rough, and that there were small shavings from the cam lobe being worn on, which he cleaned up--but that the cam was worn down as well.

Not sure what to do next. Part of me wants to have him to close it all back up, and I will just pay for the manifold gasket and get the truck home, so that I can look at it, and figure out the next step.

Would it be worth it to ask for a compression test at this time, to get an idea of how the bottom end is holding up? I had read a few other threads where folks mentioned it is good to get a compression reading before tearing into the top end, so that you have an idea about how the lower end stands.

fierohink

You could have a compression test done if you want. If your cylinders aren't within 10% of each other like they should be, are you going to have the bottom end rebuilt? If your answer is NO, then I wouldn't even bother. If your motor ran like garbage to the point of needing a rebuild, you rebuild it right? If your motor was running fine , a side from loud valves, the chance of having a bottom end issue are slim.

Smelliottkuhn

10-4! I think I am leaning towards gettin a new cam from engnbldr, and completely replacing the rocker arm assembly (which means new head bolts, and being very f***ing careful about not moving the head while assembling).

FOund a good thread on the process http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/camshaft/

Roommate said I could use her car for work, so that will take the time crunch out of it. I think trying this myself, as opposed to settling for a partial fix from the mechanic is the call.

xxxtreme22r

I can't believe some of you think those two rockers could be good. If mine looked like that, they would be in the trash. They are obviously heat stressed.

replacing the whole rocker assembly is probably not needed, you won't know that till you get the rockers off the shaft. And as I had said before only use TOYOTA OEM rockers/adjusters. Not those ebay junk assemblies.

Talk to engnbldr he can explain why.

fierohink

I never said use eBay, you're right they have a lot of junk out there. My pics are from LC Engineering, whom I would trust, I would also buy from RockAuto as long as you read that it is from a respectable supplier and not house stock, or some of the online Toyota Dealer Part programs.

xxxtreme22r

yeah, lce's are toyota oem, but over priced.

Smelliottkuhn

Alright, so I am still gathering parts. I went with EB 268 cam, but I am stuck on how I want to replace the rocker assembly. There are a ton of different options and a seemingly never ending argument about price and qaulity. I am going to layout what I have found here, just to wrap my own head around it, but please chime in with any suggestions, recommendations, thoughts, etc.

Here is a break down on the brands, the suppliers, and the prices. I was going to link each part that I found, but this has taken long enough, so here is just the general link to each of the suppliers mentioned below (You will note, that the EBAY listings/vendors are absent, and that is due to the continued warnings I found about their quality while searching the forums).

Suppliers:
LC Engineering (LCE)
Toyheadauto.com
Putney's Custom Machine aka 22reperformance.com
22re.com John's Foreign Engines (JFE)
Importperformanceparts.net
Rockauto.com
Parts Dinosaur
NAPA
Dealership Parts (just one link but there are many and reflect the prices I found at my local dealership)

Parts listed from Highest to Lowest

Rocker Arms ($/ea.):

Toyheadauto New OEM - $41.95
LCE OEM - $29.95
New OEM from dealership- $27.00 -$35.00
Sealed Power from NAPA - $24.99
Beck/Arnley from Rock Auto - $21.89
No name aftermarket from 22re.com (JFE) - $15.99
Pro Topline from importperformanceparts.net - $14
D&J Rock from Partsdinosaur - $12.40
Altrom from Napa - $8.99

Set of 8:

OEM from Toyheadauto - $283.53
OEM from LCE - $249.95
Remanufactured from Toyheadauto - $145
Aftermarket (no brand named) from 22re.com (JFE) - $119.99
OEM resurfaced (no adjusting screws) from Putney's (aka 22reperformance.com)- $80.00 + $20.00 (core)

Rocker Shafts: (HOC = Higher Oil Capacity)

Stock OEM from toyheadauto - $214.67 (pair)
Stock OEM from dealership - $70.00 (ea.)/$140 (pair)
HOC from LCE - $124.95 (pair)
HOC from Putney's - $105 (pair)
Altrom from NAPA - $48.99 (ea.)/$97.98 (pair)
Sealed Power from NAPA - $38.99 (ea.)/$77.98 (pair)
D&J Rock from partsdinosaur - $27.00 (ea.)/$54.00(pair)
Stock Aftermarket (no brand named) from Rock Auto - $26.79 (ea.)/$53.58 (pair)
Pro Topline from importerdperformanceparts.net - $25.00 (ea.)/$50.00 (pair)

Full Rocker Assembly:

LCE - $399.95
Putney's - $236.00 + $35.00 (core)
Toyheadauto - $170.10 + $60.00 (core)

4x4climber

seriously... this is how i would do it. save money and learn something by putting it together and pulling it aparts yourself. and DO NOT be a cheap AZZ and try to do all this without replacing the HG. it is NOT worth the risk. They are not expensive. and are easy to replace.

re-use your rocker towers.
Rockauto.com- higher capacity oiling shafts 55$ for both
22reperformance.com- rocker arm set OEM 95$ for all of em
22reperformance.com- adjester tip set OEM 22$ for all of em

NEW ROCKER ASSEMBLY TOTAL- $172$