kovz

This truck has given me so much grief, I don't know what to do. I bought it at the end of February and it drove fine for 2 weeks and then took a crap on me. It kept breaking down on me.
It's an 89 4 cyl. EFI 5speed 4x4.

At the time, I replaced the radiator, full tune-up (plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, air filter, new water pump and all 3 belts). I also cleaned out the TB and the butterfly plate inside with carb spray and a toothbrush and towel. I was getting 2 codes after that, 22 and 51. Water temp sensor signal and Switch signal. I then replaced the water temp sensor.
After that I pulled the EFI relay for 20 minutes, then went to start the truck today and it would not start. Took me about 25 times until I finally got it to run. It would turn over and run for a second, then stall. I finally got it to start by holding down the gas pedal to the floor, started it, then let it SLOWLY rev up even with my foot on the gas! It stuttered like hell and took a few seconds for the RPM's to climb. Once it was running, it was idling good.

About 10 minutes later, after the truck was warmed up, the idle started going higher and when I gave it gas, the engine would start to bog down and wanted to stall, until I let off the gas.

It's still throwing two codes; 51 and 22. Switch signal and Water temp sensor.

I tried unplugging the TPS to see if anything changed at all with it plugged in or not, it did not change. Any help would be appreciated.

PismoJoe

The 22RE has a few temperature switches that could contribute to hard starting:

1) Cold start injector timer switch (temp switch for cold start injector, located to the left of the gauge cluster water temp sender. Gauge water temp sender has GREEN connection, cold start injector time switch has BROWN connection)

2) Temperature switch #2 (located on the top of the thermostat housing, above the cold start injector timer switch and gauge water temp sender)

3) Not a switch, but the cold start injector itself can go bad. (located on right ride of EFI plenum when looking straight at the engine)

I don't know if this is correct, but I was told by a mechanic friend of mine (20+ years Toyota experience) NOT to use carb cleaner on the throttle body, but cleaner that is specifically for throttle bodies. He said carb cleaner could damage the TPS.

Also, do you know if your fuel injectors are leaking? I had the same issues you described with my 22RE, which I have been tearing down. Turns out ALL of my injectors were leaking (see my buildup thread for a pic) You might want to take a peek at yours.

Just some thoughts, hope this helps.

kovz

The fuel injectors are not leaking. I don't smell any gas either.

Like I said, I replaced the coolant temperature sensor already... so I'm wondering if it could be the other sensor, like you said.

I think this all has to do with the TPS. I went out there a few minutes ago and it fired right up. I let it run for a bit, then the idle started going up again. I unplugged the TPS and the idle dropped significantly, but then it almost wanted to stall out. I plugged the sensor back in and the idle went high again.

I tried hitting the throttle cable a few times and it bogged down and stalled out, or got close to stalling until I let off the gas.

PismoJoe

Sounds like the TPS to me, maybe mixed with a vacuum leak?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Did you read my other post, on your other thread?

Also, you can't necessarily smell injector leakage. They're leaking INTO the intake, usually, not otherwise. Mine seemed fine, and my truck ran pretty sweet for it's age...but the Full Test on Bench Flow, etc., showed that not only were 2 of my injectors leaking, but my Cold Start injector was leaking BAD. It will cause a rich/or lean/ issue when you have an injector problem, and thus screw up the readings/response from the ECU and other sensors. I'm not saying it's your injectors, it's just a thought, and while you have the upper intake off, you can have it bead-blasted like I am, or just follow the instructions on the site(some people even go to steam washers at the coin op.)

That's unusual, ...usually, when you unplug the TPS, your idle will come back up from low(at least with most cases I've read and my own experience)....But then, you're dumping TONS of fuel on the problem so it appears fine. When in reality, the TPS is just one of many sensors, including the Air flow meter, Idle Air Control Valve(aka AAV), Cold Start injector time switch, Coolant Temp Switch, Dashpot(which you said is fine), and Idle adjustments that can all send you scratching your head if one is reading/operating improperly.

Let me know what you've done regarding my post on the other thread, k?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

That's what I was thinking, Pismo, or maybe a REALLY clogged vacuum port into the upper intake(Not clear on if he cleaned that or just the throttle body). But this jumping Idle issue seems to always come up with IACV, and I'll be cleaning/ or replacing if necessary, mine as well.

Check list, Kovz, with MUCH detail as to what you've done. Including, but not limited to "did you clean the throttle body alone? Or the ENTIRE intake?"

kovz

I only cleaned the throttle body only, and parts of the intake duct from the air filter to the throttle body. I sprayed carb spray around all my hoses to check for any leaks and I did not find any. I also don't see any cracks or anything from visually inspecting them.

PismoJoe

You might want to check all of your vacuum connections coming off of the intake plenum. My VSV and brake booster ones were 50% or more clogged, some other ones were very near 100% clogged. Not in the vacuum lines themselves, but in the plenum's ports that the vacuum lines connect to.

killianbrody

If you cleaned Throttle Body with carb cleaner it can get into the TPS throttle positioning sensor and short it out since the spray is conductive. Sounds like TPS as previously mentioned and maybe vac leak.

kovz

Well I can't even get the truck to start now. It turns over and fires up, but after running for 1-2 seconds, it shuts back off.
Any other ideas???

Lt. Dan

Is your MAF sensor unplugged?

kovz

No, it is plugged in. I just got it to start, but I literally had to hold the gas pedal down to the floor at the same time I was cranking it over. It was running HORRIBLE and if I let off the gas at all, it would stall out again.

I wonder if my injectors are clogged, or leaking, or which sensor this is. I am so fed up with this truck that I listed it on Craigslist today. I still want to try to figure out the problem in the meantime, so any advice is appreciated. I'd like to at least be able to tell the buyer what is wrong...

kovz

BUMP...

I really don't want to invest any more money into this truck, but I'm going to have a very hard time selling it if it's running the way it has been the past couple of days. I have no idea what's wrong. It was running OK when I picked it up from Monro muffler last Thursday, and the past few days I can barely get it to run at all! They told me it was the TPS at Monro, but I fear it's more than that. I don't want to buy one, go through the trouble of installing and adjusting one, and then find out that there is more problems.
I honestly believe this all started because of Seafoam. I had the truck for 2 weeks and then did seafoam in the vacuum lines and gas tank. A couple days after I put it in, the truck took a on me. It could be sensor that are bad, or it could be leaking or clogged Fuel injectors. I have no idea. I wish somebody could help. I've had 3 certified mechanics look at it and everyone has a different opinion.

killianbrody

I take the battery is good since youve been cranking it to get it started I had a bad battery make it run like crap before (efi). I have heard (on GMC trucks my other ride) that seafoam can cause problems with the 02 sensor located near the catalytic converter my 4runner is converterless so I dont even know if there is a O2 sensor there. If you cleaned your Throttle body and did not remove the TPS it can cause it to short out. I still believe this is your problem. A new one from autozone is like 80 bucks that is where I'd start.

kovz

Yeah it's got a good battery. I have the truck listen on craigslist now. If I don't get any bites within the next week, I'll probably break down and go buy a TPS for it..

yayfortrees

Have you checked for clogged vacuum ports or lines? Maybe the seafoam knocked something loose and it ended up in a port. IDK.

kovz

Well I'll try to explain this stuff for a final time.

The truck has a very difficult time starting from a cold start. I have to hold down the gas pedal to the floor. Once it starts, I have to keep giving it gas. If I let off the gas and it idles, it will stall out.

Once it starts warming up, I can let off the gas and it will idle fine. The idle is high and fluctuates. At this point, I can DRIVE the truck with no problems.

Once the truck is at running temp (warmed up), it stalls out if I give it ANY gas at all. Literally just touch the gas pedal and it stalls out.

When the truck stalls out or I shut it off, it's difficult to start again. It just cranks and cranks. If it does start, the idle is very low and the truck shakes like it's about to stall. Again, if I touch the gas pedal even ever so slightly, it will stall.

Once the truck cools down again, I can start it, give it gas, and drive it.

Here is the huge note: This problem started happening BEFORE I did any maintaince to the truck. The only thing I did was put seafoam in (brake booster vac line and gas tank) and a week later it started causing this problem. It was after this problem started happening that I tried cleaning the TB and probably screwed up the TPS with throttle body cleaner. I also gave it a full tune-up (cap, plugs, wires, rotor, air filter, fuel filter). So what do you think would cause this problem? Clogged cat? Clogged FI's or leaking FI's?

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

Well since you're pretty stumped i'll chime in since i feel as though i've delt with some of these issues and yeah i understand the headache they can cause.

I'm going to give advice as if this was my truck and i was trying to tackle the problem. Since you already did the "tune up" start with that first. Go ahead and get a piece of paper and make a long list of things to check. First go through all the stuff you did for the tune up. Recheck your plugs, all of them, wires as well. make sure all of the simple stuff is in order such as coolant topped off, oil level, grounds are good, vaccum lines are in order, air filter is clean and free of debris, make sure the intake tube is secure and free of cracks or holes. just basic stuff right. Since you mentioned the seafoam treatment before you might want to check all of these things since the treatment can foul spark plugs if the intake was really dirty. Also check the o2 sensor. I might have missed it but did you replace the fuel filter as well? It's next to the starter under the intake plenum.

next lets get to the more complicated stuff. First off find a junk yard or toyota salvage yard in your area. This will help immensly in the "cost" factor. From what iv'e read this is the direction i would go. TPS sounds like the major player in your problems. First and foremost you cleaned the throttle body and you did one of two things. You either took it off and cleaned said throttle body (this is how you're supposed to do it) and reinstalled it and set the TPS to spec. For reference it IS adjustable and needs to be put back on the throttle body properly. On the other hand you left it on the throttle body while cleaning it and the possible faulty TPS was damaged or broken when doing so. I noticed you said the motor was already acting up before this process started so the TPS might have already been acting up the cleaning might have compounded the acting up.For some education on the TPS check out 4crawlers site and buy a ohmmeter you'll be happy you did.

Next lets check out the MAF or mass air flow meter or AFM air flow meter. It'll will be refrered to as both by many members here on YT. Again use the ohmmeter and check 4crawlers site for the specifics.

next on the list for me would be the cold start injector switch. It's under the throttle body and is one of two plugs. I think it's the green one but double check before you replace since i'm not sure. This is the time where you need the junkyard since replacing parts as we all know can get exspensive fast.

last but not least the dreaded Ecu. to be honest i have yet to deal with this as of yet (knock on wood). so i have no direction for you. If i was in your shoes the local scrap yard would be my first option if the latter failed to fix your start run issues.

Well thats all i got for you. Not an exact list but like i said start your own and start checking things off so you can eliminate the whole throwing parts at it until it's fixed issue. also do a search on hear for idle issues. A couple other members started to compile data on how what and why symptoms are caused on the 22re and how to fix them. good luck man i hope you figure it out.

kovz

Well I sold the truck a couple days ago. Sold it for the same price I bought it for back in February. So I did end up losing out on some money from all the new parts I invested...

The new owner had it towed to a mechanic shop and the ended up getting the truck to run again. They replaced the coolant temperature sensor. I thought I already changed this, but apparently there are two. I changed the one that controls the gauge on the cluster... the one that was broke was the one that controls the ECU.

The TPS may still need adjusted, and the cat needs replaced (because I cut the old one off). Had to try to figure out if it was clogged... and it looked to be 21 years old! I could barely see through the thing.

All and all, thank you guys for your help. I learned a lot messing with this truck. I have a lot to learn when it comes to working on engines, but I'll learn eventually. I would much rather stick to the suspension, brakes, interior, and body modifications, lol.

Also, I picked up a 90' Mazda B2600 4x4 truck a few months back for $360. Runs and drives great, just need to put a patch weld on the frame, since it's cracked. Hoping to get that fixed by a friend of mine within the next week, then start cleaning her up for a nice reliable winter driver and hauler.

yayfortrees

Well, we hate to see you go, especially to a Mazda. JK Sorry it didn't work out with the toyota. At least, like you said, you learned a lot about it, and didn't lose too much money.

It has been long enough that I don't remember what all was tried and mentioned, but I hope I had talked about how there are two temp sensors, and to make sure you get the right one. (Not that I know which one it is.)

Take care, and good luck with the Mazda.