10 Gauge

I just picked up a '93 4x4 Pickup with 131k on the clock, 3VZ-E under the hood.

Timing was done once already at 57k but the No.2 idler is now making noise so I have ordered a complete timing kit to do it. After ordering the kit I started doing some research on the head gasket issues with this motor and decided to call up Toyota. It seems they are still willing to replace the head gaskets for me.

If I supply them with my timing kit, will they throw it in at a hugely reduced cost since they've already done 85% of the work for the head gasket replacement?

Also, I would REALLY love to have them install an ARP head stud kit instead of the crap factory torque to yield head bolts. Do you think they would do that for me if I supplied them?

Cheers!

RJR

I would be very surprised if any Toyota dealer would install aftermarket parts that a customer brought in, especially on a warranty job. They may give you a reduced labor rate on installing the timing kit using their parts, since they're already in there. But they're not likely to want to stand behind any work they do using someone else's parts. Same would apply to the head bolts, probably more so, since the FSM would have no procedure for proper head torqueing using those ARP studs.

A free head-gasket replacement on a 21 year-old vehicle is a pretty good deal in itself. I would cancel the order for the timing kit and have the dealer do that work while they have it apart, using their parts and processes.

10 Gauge

You're probably right on all counts.

I had the timing kit overnighted for delivery tomorrow so I could do it this weekend. Would be a pisser to have wasted that money on shipping.

I think I may just install the timing kit as planned this weekend and then schedule the gasket replacement job as I don't know when my schedule and Toyota's schedule are going to be able to come together. What I do know is that the noise from the idler is scaring me and I'd like to fix it ASAP.

10 Gauge

On another note, picking up a set of Doug Thorley headers this morning for $200 which I think is a pretty good deal.

Updated head gaskets + aftermarket headers should really help a ton with gasket popping shouldn't it? Would love for this truck to get another 200k miles.

10 Gauge

The dealership I am working with on this is great..... They are going to let me supply them with a set of ARP head studs for the job as well as use my timing kit / water pump when they do the job, no extra charge. To top it off they said they would put my headers on for me at no extra charge as well, just a small fee for fabbing up a collector to connect to the stock exhaust.

Rosner Toyota, A+ so far fellas!

RJR

Wow, that's a good outfit for sure! Worth keeping a good relationship with them.

Hugh_Mann

Amazing. Never would have guessed coming from a dealer. Still sounds to good to be true.

10 Gauge

I talked to them today again..... The service manager called Toyota to discuss the ARP head studs. Toyota obviously told him that they couldn't warrant the repair work if they used them. BUT, the service manager told me he would guarantee the work on behalf of the dealership. Basically if he ever leaves then I'd have no one to vouch for me on their guarantee.

So I asked if they typically reuse the old head bolts for the recall work and he told me they do. That's not a viable option for me so I just had them order me a new set of factory Toyota head bolts instead.

What do you guys think would be the best route to go? ARP with no official warantee or new Toyota bolts with warantee? It's not too late to change my mind.

rworegon

Edited out the TTY as it was an error as scope103 pointed out. I had a brain freeze due to way below freezing weather here.

scope103

"Torque to Yield" bolts cannot be reused (they are torqued to the yield point of the metal and beyond). The Toyota Factory Service Manual clearly calls for their head bolts to be reused (and the dealer, who is part of Toyota backing up the warranty, agrees). Instead, according to the Toyota FSM the head bolts are Torque-to-Angle (or Torque-Turn-to-Tighten http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2001...rque-to-angle/)

So why do you think the head bolts are "Torque to Yield"? Is this conflated with Torque to Angle?

10 Gauge

TTT or TTY to me it doesn't make a difference. Personally I'd never reuse any kind of head bolt, only a stud, call me overly cautious. A new set of bolts is cheap added insurance in which I'm happy to pay for.

On another note I've been looking at brake pads. I see they list two styles for the pickup. One that's got a curve to it and one that's more rectangular. Without pulling a wheel to check is there another way to know which style I need?

rworegon

Digging through old TSBs and found this:
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/sk...95_runner2.pdf

I wonder how one determines if the bolt does not meet the torque spec? And, torque specs may have been updated after this TSB for all I know.

scope103

I wondered about that myself (I've seen the same for a Subaru). If the bolt (for instance) had been seriously stretched, it could bottom in the block, but then it would come right up on the torque spec (even though it was still "loose").

rworegon

The chance of stretching, the potential effect of heat cycles, thread deformation, or whatever has always motivated me to just replace them when doing a HG. Like 10 Gauge, I'm overly cautious.

RJR

I'm a little puzzled why anyone would think the ARP studs would be any better in that regard. Same diameter, same or similar material, same stresses, etc.

Actually, unless you know all of the stress calculations for the head bolts (which the Toyata engineers know and the rest of us don't) it's pure speculation as to the risk of re-using them. I doubt Toyota would have done a massive head gasket replacement campaign and just crossed their fingers on the used headbolts just to save the cost of new ones on a $1000+ warranty job. My guess is they were pretty darn sure those bolts were just fine to re-use.

scope103

According to ARP, the reason that studs are "generally" superior to bolts is that bolts have to transmit torque while being tightened, but the stud just sits there and only needs to stretch (presumably the nut has to transmit torque). To ARP's credit, they do point out that studs often mean you can't remove the head without removing the engine, because the head will hit something like the brake booster before it's clear of the stud!

But I'm with RJR; the Toyota Engineers have been pretty successful so far, so if they still say "go ahead, reuse the bolts," I'm happy with that. Would brand new bolts be "better"? Oh, probably, but that applies to the radiator hose, the valve springs, and every other part including the block!

Note that some manufacturers (I'm thinking of Subaru) recommend that you do replace the head bolts. So I do, when working on a Subaru.

10 Gauge

Like I said, overly cautious. What's an additional $128 for some extra peace of mind?

10 Gauge

Dropped her off yesterday afternoon. Got a new Rav4 as a loaner for the week. Nice driving little SUV!