washambala

Hey guys. I have an 86 4x4 with a 22r. Bought the thing about 6 months ago now and have had temperature issues with it. When I first bought it, it was all kinds of messed up. Bad carb, bad distributor being the two really big things but there were many small things too. Anyways, when I first got it, it ran pretty cool, especially for phoenix in the middle of summer. But as time went by, the operating temp would slowly rise. It started out with the needle pointing about half way between the bottom line and the "TEMP" in the middle of the gauge and slowly has gone to pointing at the upper edge of TEMP. Today it got up to the bottom of the little thermometer icon on the freeway. Over the months, I've been thinking it was due to bad components and replaced all the cooling system with the exception of the water pump and engine block. After each new part the temp drops a little and then keeps going back up after a few days. During each day, it warms up to whatever the operating temp is and just stays unless I get on the freeway.

So I guess at this point, I have a few questions. What temperatures do these three positions correspond with? What's the normal operating temperature of one of these engines? What could be causing this slow rise?

Ran a combustion gas check in the radiator about 3 months ago and it came up clean so I don't think the head gasket is to blame. Oil is clean and I'm not losing coolant.
Thanks

i tried to upload pictures but Im kind of a dumbass some times.

JasonYota

iTrader: (1)

Operating temps should be around 180-200. The slow rise in temp could be a stuck thermostat. Even new ones can be detective.
Welcome to Yotatech

washambala

Thanks.

by stuck thermostat, do you mean that it might be opening less and less each time? the tstat thats in it is a factory plain jane one from the dealer. I didnt go with the dual because I havent had a problem with my temp going up when the heater is turned on. when I say that my operating temp is rising, i mean between days or weeks. it holds steady during normal driving conditions. Part of the problem is that this is my first truck and Im still learning whats normal and what isnt, also that there are no graduations on the gauge. just "cold" and "overheating". what area of the gauge is 180-200?

JasonYota

iTrader: (1)

When the thermostat sticks open that's when it takes a long time to warm up.
Have you made sure there isn't air trapped in your cooling system?
Are you saying over the past few weeks the truck has slowly ran warmer than before?

washambala

Im pretty sure theres no air. I usually use one of the rad cap funnels to fill it. And yes, the truck has slowly started running warmer than before. Since I got it, just under 6 months ago now. I put new radiator hoses on as soon as I bought it. Temp started out pretty low, just barely above the cold line at full operating temp. Then it started rising slowly over the next month or so. I ended up putting in a new fan clutch (aisin brand), and it dropped the operating temp a little. it went back up again over the next few weeks. then I put in a new thermostat, toyota unit, and a new aluminum radiator, thinking I might have flow issues. warm up time was now reduced and operating temp was a little cooler again. But its still rising slowly. Im just running out of things that could be wrong here. The water pump and water jackets are the only things left.

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

Ok stupid question from me now. Did you use the proper mix of coolant and distiller water? Next the dual temp thermostat seems to solve a lo of problems. What is the ambient air temp where you are driving? Are you pulling extra weight in the bed a lot? Is it mainly stop and go traffic or open roads with light traffic? Also have you tried parking the truck with the nose facing up as steep of hill as practical. Then when the engine is cold remove the radiator cap(cold) and start the truck up. Let it idle till she comes up to temp and see if it burps a hidden air bubble. I have found one in mine twice when I was sure it wasn't there. Just good for thought.
Hope this helps and good luck.

washambala

22r, carbed motor. My daily driving is fairly open surface city streets. stop light, accelerate to 50, cruise for a mile in 4th or 5th depending on traffic and how i feel, slow down and stop for the next light, idle for 30 seconds. The usual. It runs a tic hotter on the freeway, 5th gear, 70mph sustained for any longer than 5 minutes or so.

I live in Phoenix. Ambient temp when I leave in the mornings has been 40-50 and 60-70 when I come home. In the summer when it was running coolest, it was between 90-120 depending on the day. Bed is almost always empty. I think I moved a couch with it once, maybe a bed on another occation.

the coolant I use is either autozone 50/50 premix, or the bulk premix my shop has. I use green.

Im trying to avoid the dual tstat because of the price, is there anywhere cheap to get one? LC is the only place I really looked.

JasonYota

iTrader: (1)

Have you verified that the engine is actually running warmer? The stock gauges are not very accurate. Before you spend more money on it.

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

I have read in the past of people drilling a small hole in their current thermostat. But I would search to get specifics. Use google with dual temp thermostat mods and yotatech. Or something to that extent. Play with the wording to get the results your looking for.

washambala

How should I go about doing that?

washambala

The toyota tstat I have has a small hole with a little dingle hung in it. Ive heard of people just taking the dingle out. I could do that, but Id like to know if theres something more definitive I can do.

JasonYota

iTrader: (1)

That's to help get air out of the system. I've never had a problem with the engine running with the cap off to get the air out

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

No the drilling the hole is to create a "dual" temp thermostat. Parking it on the hill and running with out the cap is for air in the system.

RAD4Runner

That's what mech/owner of truck shop that rebuilt my 22R-E does- remove the jiggle valve. He used to race 22R-E's in Baja (hot?) so I trust him with that.
Works similar to drilling a tiny hole around edge of T-Stat. Makes it take a little bit longer to warm engine up to operating temp. However, if i would keep engine safer from overheating I'm fine with that.

Besides I think it's better than the aftermarket fail-safe T-stat that needs to be replaced, once it locks open. See 4Crawler's Discussion on dual-stage thermostat here.

RAD4Runner

Other members may have a way to check if water pump is working.

The fan is the only old component on my cooling system, so I got an Aisin one, too. May I know whether you accessed fan clutch for replacement from above or from the bottom? - TIA

ZUK

iTrader: (1)

Hey Wash-
Happy New Year. I had your exact symptoms on my 87 Runner with 22RE with auto.....33 x 10.50 BFG tires and 571 gears but I digress. Most of the time it was on the freeway when the temp started creeping up. Radiator appeared original and had 220 k miles on it. Replaced it with a brand new one and problem gone. You have a clogged radiator. This place http://radiator.com but you can call their number 1-800-248-8720 and, many times, they can get it to your doorstep in a couple hours like they did me(they had an outlet in Mesa AZ). I believe I got mine for a very reasonable 105 shipped.....well, technically not shipped because their truck dropped it off to me shortly after hanging up on the phone. I see you are in Phoenix....so You will also get it quick.
By the way, you have probably already "heat stressed" your head gasket....it might start blowing white sweet smelling smoke like mine did ....even after the new radiator. It took 1 week to start blowing as I recall.
If it does blow, may I recommend Blue Devil Headgasket stop leak? Amazing stuff. $20 at O'reillys I think. Use the whole quart.

And one more thing....The factory in dash temp gauge is a joke. It's more like an idiot light. Temp needle does not move from the center for about a 50 degree temperature swing. Using my Scan Gauge 2(ODBM interface) on my 01 Tacoma 3.4L auto with awesome 410 gears, I noted that the water temp was at 157 degrees when the needle had just reached the usual halfway mark. At 204, still rock steady at the center mark. I bet it does not start going up til maybe 220 or 230. By that time the stressing is already there. So, on a properly working Toyota cooling system, the gauge seems rock steady on the long steep hills....in a 110 degree Arizona day....with the ac on. This gives a BIG false sense that I have an amazing cooling system. The reality is it varies a few degrees. In my case , If I ever saw my scangauge2 hit 206 I would raise 1 tiny mental flag...then 207 then 210 then I would know I have an issue coming on BEFORE it even came close to hot. No Mo headgasket issues for this guy as I can nip it in the bud.

Get an external temp gauge
Ken

RAD4Runner

Happy New Year, folks!

Good point, Zuk.
Cooling system issues had been most common among all our vehicles.

Vehicles have all the lights, buzzers, bells, whistles for non-critical things, yet there is no warning that catches one's attention for one of the most critical conditions- overheating. A vehicle can operate through many other conditions for extended periods (months in some CEL issue), but it will have serious and costly damage within minutes when over-heated.

So I'm brainstorming my next project, An external, accurate temp indicator with audible and visible alarm.

washambala

When I said I replaced everything, I meant everything. The radiator was done a couple months back with a brand new aluminum unit from low range off road. When I did the fan clutchni did it from the top. Undo the four nuts that hold it to the water pump pulley and take it off and just let it set in the fan shroud. Then unbold the fan shroud, four screws in the corners and lift both out together.

I have no white smoke, just a little oil at start up from my valve seals.

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

Have you flushed your system. Actually ran several gallons of di water through it. Might be some slight clogs in the block or head somewhere. Just guessing.

washambala

Yea that's probably my next step. I have a new water pump that I'm planning to put in when I reseal my leaking oil pump. Before I do I'm going to put in a bottle of the industrial grade radiator flush that my shop uses. I'll run it thru for a couple hours and then I'll do the pump and flush it with water and refill.

I think I might take my tstat out and cut off the jiggle valve while the system is drained