Fambugee

This is on an 86 22r. The reason I'm asking is aren't the valve seals rubber? Not sure how heads are usually cleaned but could the solvent they use screw up the seals? I've got a full gasket set and just had my head cleaned (valves installed) and surfaced for a head gasket. Should I go ahead and do the seals for peace of mind? And if so, is this a simple job?

fdp101452

I would go back to the shop that did the rest of the work and get them to install new seals. Not a hard job at all if you have the tools and I doubt they would charge much to do it for you. Valve seals a cheap and I would do it now.

abecedarian

The most common way of cleaning a head is a "hot tank" using caustic chemicals that can destroy valve seals.

You SHOULD at least call the shop and complain. They SHOULD have told you hot tanking can destroy seals and then gave you the option to remove them yourself or pay for them to remove them, which would mean they need replaced too.
We know they're not that expensive.
If they didn't warn you, they should at least cover the cost of the seals for you to replace on your own had since had you known they should be removed, you'd have pulled them first, then replaced them afterwards.

I think a reputable shop would replace them for you at no charge to gain word of mouth reputation.

Fambugee

man that sure is frustrating. I'm mechanically inclined but have most experience on aircraft not trucks. You would think they would have warned me thank you for the quick replies. can i just do these seals myself? I'd rather make sure they are done right as I'm questioning this shop's work ethic/knowledge now. Thanks!

MudHippy

They're usually cleaned in an automated steam cleaner or hot water washer(very similar to a dishwasher, but for dirty parts) of some type. If not, they more labor intensive option, yet very common practice, is usually a soak in gas/diesel/solvent and hand cleaning with brushes of various size/design.

You can't "hot tank" aluminum...DOH!!!

IMO, it's worth removing the valves just to make sure they are thoroughly cleaned before they're put back into service. And there's no sense in removing them and not replacing the seals.

abecedarian

Yes, you can do them yourself but like said, they should've told you the seals should be removed. Contact them and see what they offer. Maybe they'll cover the cost of the seals and you do them or maybe they'll do them for you for free to gain reputation.

Then again, there is the possibility that even with new seals something will be out of spec meaning more work is necessary like new valves, seats and grinding the seats. Another reason to remove things from the head before tanking.

Fambugee

Yeah I hear ya. This is my first HG on an engine and figured I could just get it cleaned and surfaced and call it a day. The engine seemed to run fine before all this with no noticeable smoke just kinda gutless. I think I'll just do the seals and slap it back together.........engine is high mileage (253k) so I'll just squeeze whatever else I can out of her before rebuilding. Thanks for the advice, a learning experience for sure. Next time I'll disassemble and inspect before heading to the shop.Oh and I have some seals that came with my gasket set, which is why I just wanted to do them myself and gain the experience. Perhaps I'll give em a call to and ask why they didn't give me a heads up.........either way the seals would have to be changed so I suppose it's not the end of the world.....

abecedarian

no guarantee new out-of-the-box seals with work with used valves. they wear, just like other parts, like valves, and sometimes new valves and/or seals are needed.

good luck!

Fambugee

Thanks! Now you got me paranoid! At this point the option to rebuild is very tempting. Suppose best route is to disassemble the head, inspect per FSM, and go from there before getting too worried about it.

Fambugee

Well it looks like my truck is trying to talk to me. I'm like 99% sure I found a crack in my block between a coolant passage on #3 cylinder and the cylinder wall. well damn............that just sucks. Hopefully a build thread coming soon when I can save up some money. Pics to follow.......

drew303

you sure its a crack... its pretty rare to see a cracked block. FYI.

Also, I've never had a shop "hot tank" a toy head, they jet wash my heads and parts. I've done a lot of top ends on our 22's, from new heads to refurbed heads to cracked and rewelded heads.. you name it ive seen it.

I've used Felpro, Rock, Topline Head gaskets.. I now only use OEM toyota Head Gaskets, for $49 ... its worth every penny.

Replacing valve stem seals isnt neccessary but its a cheap thing to have done when you have the head in the shop, costs very little and i always have about 3 extra sets of stem seals in my bin it seems lol but... if you still got the head off just take it back to the shop and have em put new seals in.

My experience with machine shops, when ive had seals replaced, theyved ground and or replaced valves as neccessary, thats what a good machine shop will do for its customer and the cost IME hasnt been to bad

Dont overthink this job, its nothing to be paranoid about or get your panties in a wad over. The worst that will happen with a bad valve stem seal is a lil blue puff at startup as the seals only leak enough to produce blue smoke after oil has seaped thru after the motors off.... not a big deal.

anyway, goodluck and relax mate!

drew303

abecedarian, youre back.... been awhile!

Fambugee

Drew, thanks for the advice man I think I was getting a little more excited than I probably should have been. However..........this pic sure makes it seem like this project just took a different turn

What do you guys think? Sure looks cracked to me.........

Fambugee

i'm going to actually open a new thread about this block as i have a couple questions concerning it..........thanks for the help guys

drew303

damn bro... yea that's cracked.

Stuwy123

iTrader: (1)

OEM Toyota Headgasket for $49?

Wanna know how much those cost up in Canada?
$189!

abecedarian

Yep.


Yep, that's a crack- you can see how it's progressed to/from the passage over to the cylinder bore. Not a good thing.
Repairing may be possible, and thats a very iffy "may". Probably easier to replace the block... and definitely a lot more reassuring.

drew303

ouch!! you could have someone in the states ship one up!