Oil Leaking from Timing Cover Bolts???
10-27-2010, 05:25 PM
#1
Oil Leaking from Timing Cover Bolts???
Thanks, in advance, for all those helping in my troubleshooting thread(in my sig).
Here is a video of where it's leaking;
I just tore it down to the oil pump bolt that gets sealant, sealed it up(it had none on there, thanks to my wonderful machinist), but as you can see, it's still leaking.
What you might not be able to tell from the video, is where, exactly, it's leaking from. I CAN NOT be sure, but it appears to be leaking through the Upper AC Bracket Bolt that goes through the timing cover. It leaks down, from there, running along the AC bracket body, then onto the lower large bolt that goes through the AC Bracket, ....then down the angled section of Timing cover, onto the oil pan edge, then DRIPS AHOY onto the underworkings of the car, then the ground.
My main question is, what are ALL of the possibilities that could be causing this? Not sure how oil could even be in that area other than..
1. Failed Oil Pump O-ring(motor has 1500 miles on it, including brand new oil pump and o-ring....but anything's possible, I suppose)
2. Some flaw in the NEW timing cover, or the gasket that mounts to the block.
3. I replaced the CAM without removing the head, but never removed the hidden bolt and strapped the head down VERY TIGHT before cracking the head bolts... Never nudged it once, and it all went back like clockwork...No HG leaking, at all. Thought I'd mention it since it was a pretty major project.
4. Front Main Crank Seal?...... Wouldn't that be ALL OVER?
5. If the timing cover gasket was causing the leaking through those bolts...wouldn't it most likely be leaking out the side of the cover as well?
I'll add any pictures that are requested,...and will try anything, at this point, after messing with this truck's motor....... Well, most of you know what I've been through because of this machinist... I'll just leave it at this..... I NEED HELP, BAD, to plug this away, once and for all... what should I check, how, and what first?????
Thanks, again,
Mark
Here is a video of where it's leaking;
I just tore it down to the oil pump bolt that gets sealant, sealed it up(it had none on there, thanks to my wonderful machinist), but as you can see, it's still leaking.
What you might not be able to tell from the video, is where, exactly, it's leaking from. I CAN NOT be sure, but it appears to be leaking through the Upper AC Bracket Bolt that goes through the timing cover. It leaks down, from there, running along the AC bracket body, then onto the lower large bolt that goes through the AC Bracket, ....then down the angled section of Timing cover, onto the oil pan edge, then DRIPS AHOY onto the underworkings of the car, then the ground.
My main question is, what are ALL of the possibilities that could be causing this? Not sure how oil could even be in that area other than..
1. Failed Oil Pump O-ring(motor has 1500 miles on it, including brand new oil pump and o-ring....but anything's possible, I suppose)
2. Some flaw in the NEW timing cover, or the gasket that mounts to the block.
3. I replaced the CAM without removing the head, but never removed the hidden bolt and strapped the head down VERY TIGHT before cracking the head bolts... Never nudged it once, and it all went back like clockwork...No HG leaking, at all. Thought I'd mention it since it was a pretty major project.
4. Front Main Crank Seal?...... Wouldn't that be ALL OVER?
5. If the timing cover gasket was causing the leaking through those bolts...wouldn't it most likely be leaking out the side of the cover as well?
I'll add any pictures that are requested,...and will try anything, at this point, after messing with this truck's motor....... Well, most of you know what I've been through because of this machinist... I'll just leave it at this..... I NEED HELP, BAD, to plug this away, once and for all... what should I check, how, and what first?????
Thanks, again,
Mark
10-27-2010, 05:32 PM
#3
Registered User
I'm here Mark.
Don't think it's the front main seal b/c it would get on the crank pulley & the belts would sling it all over, not just the drip you have.
All I have for now, be back in a few, putting kids to bed over here.
Don't think it's the front main seal b/c it would get on the crank pulley & the belts would sling it all over, not just the drip you have.
All I have for now, be back in a few, putting kids to bed over here.
Last edited by yotarob2005; 10-27-2010 at 05:34 PM.
10-27-2010, 06:22 PM
#5
Registered User
Still not much too add other than an opinion, going by your list numbers, here are my thoughts.
1) I doubt it, but the o-ring could be pinched in that one spot but if so why would it appear to be leaking from the upper AC bolt?
2) Possible
3) Not likely
4) NO, or oil would be all over the place.
5) Yes, I think I might be leaking from the upper left (passenger) side corner of the timing cover & just running down the crack & looks like it is leaking from the bolt hole?? Not really sure, but I have been outside looking at mine & I do not see any reasonable explanation for oil to be leaking at or around the upper AC compressor bolt.
1) I doubt it, but the o-ring could be pinched in that one spot but if so why would it appear to be leaking from the upper AC bolt?
2) Possible
3) Not likely
4) NO, or oil would be all over the place.
5) Yes, I think I might be leaking from the upper left (passenger) side corner of the timing cover & just running down the crack & looks like it is leaking from the bolt hole?? Not really sure, but I have been outside looking at mine & I do not see any reasonable explanation for oil to be leaking at or around the upper AC compressor bolt.
10-27-2010, 06:31 PM
#6
Agreed with rob here but the down side to this is the solution is taking the dang cover off and redoing it right. Upside to the solution is if you redo it (mind you it's labor intensive but not complicated) it will be done right and no more leaks no matter where they're coming from on the timing cover.
10-27-2010, 07:52 PM
#7
Hey Guys, ...some more pictures, with what I THINK, not sure, might be happening.....
As you can see, that bolt in the middle of the first picture, which holds in the AC Bracket, is actually one of 3 bolts that go through the timing cover and AC Bracket. You can also see the upper one, ......NOTHING, dry as a bone. That center one(middle of the first picture), I believe, is leaking out the bolt head and behind the bracket(where the timing cover meets the bracket), and it's PROBABLY being caused by a shotty job of 'sealing the cover gasket'.... Which, under pressure, and ESPECIALLY when the oil is warm, begins to collect there, as the chain is slinging oil everywhere in the cover, and it seeps through, then out the head of that one. (My guess is that the machinist, DORKUS MAXIMUS, only put sealant around the edge of the gasket in that area.... so it leaked through the gasket at this point, and into the bolt passage.) I think that when it's under higher pressure, and the fan is going really well, it's sending a lil onto the side of the oil pump(That's what I think that dirty dusty look is actually caused by. There is NO oil on the pump outer areas, coming from the bolts or otherwise).
You can't tell from the picture, but right under that bolt, the bracket surface is angled downward to the right, where the oil then flows around the underside, then runs on the edge of the bracket at an angle downward to the left, then pools up at that lower bolt and runs down the cover and onto the pan, etc., etc., and so on. It VERY WELL MAY be leaking out of that hole, too. But, unless I pull them, I'll never know.
SOOOOOOOO, after talking to my good buddy, Andy(a former member here...THANKS for your time, Andy... Can't wait to hit the Sierras soon!). I've decided to try something that he suggested might work.
1. Pull the AC compressor off the mount/bracket in question(to lighten the load off the bolts going into the block from both angles.)
2. Pull the bolts going through the AC bracket and timing cover(This will allow me to see if it's both the middle and lower one, or just the middle one, leaking)
3. Either one it is, I'm going to then REALLY CLEAN the holes out, then coat the bolt a bit with Toyota FIPK-Black, toward the end, but only on the area where it's going to be right up against the block... I'll measure it well to be sure I don't get much at all into the threads of the block).
4. I will also be slathering some on toward the head of the bolt, and behind the bracket and in front of it, where the surface meets the timing cover(This should help, if any oil still gets in at the gasket area, to keep it from making it's way out that hole)
Yes, there's a chance that it's not my only issue and that it might be cracked somewhere. But as a couple people were saying, including Roger, "It can leak past the gasket and work it's way into that bolt housing of the timing cover...." and as Andy said, "Look at it this way, it's 2 hours, max, to do this. You don't have to pull ANY of the stuff that you just did, and if it doesn't work, then you can get into the 6-8 hour job of pulling and replacing the entire cover, etc.... i would at least try it".
Thanks, Rob, Mouse, Jerry, Tim A.(Nice to meet ya!),
Rob, I think that it's REALLY unlikely that the oil pump is flawed in any way. From what I've learned in the last couple hours, ...Oil is slinging all over inside the cover from the chain, especially once it gets really warmed up(when it seems to get leaking worse) and also cuz it's under pressure after a short time. It COULD be the o-ring.... but I can't see it hurting to try this, first.
Whatcha guys think?
As you can see, that bolt in the middle of the first picture, which holds in the AC Bracket, is actually one of 3 bolts that go through the timing cover and AC Bracket. You can also see the upper one, ......NOTHING, dry as a bone. That center one(middle of the first picture), I believe, is leaking out the bolt head and behind the bracket(where the timing cover meets the bracket), and it's PROBABLY being caused by a shotty job of 'sealing the cover gasket'.... Which, under pressure, and ESPECIALLY when the oil is warm, begins to collect there, as the chain is slinging oil everywhere in the cover, and it seeps through, then out the head of that one. (My guess is that the machinist, DORKUS MAXIMUS, only put sealant around the edge of the gasket in that area.... so it leaked through the gasket at this point, and into the bolt passage.) I think that when it's under higher pressure, and the fan is going really well, it's sending a lil onto the side of the oil pump(That's what I think that dirty dusty look is actually caused by. There is NO oil on the pump outer areas, coming from the bolts or otherwise).
You can't tell from the picture, but right under that bolt, the bracket surface is angled downward to the right, where the oil then flows around the underside, then runs on the edge of the bracket at an angle downward to the left, then pools up at that lower bolt and runs down the cover and onto the pan, etc., etc., and so on. It VERY WELL MAY be leaking out of that hole, too. But, unless I pull them, I'll never know.
SOOOOOOOO, after talking to my good buddy, Andy(a former member here...THANKS for your time, Andy... Can't wait to hit the Sierras soon!). I've decided to try something that he suggested might work.
1. Pull the AC compressor off the mount/bracket in question(to lighten the load off the bolts going into the block from both angles.)
2. Pull the bolts going through the AC bracket and timing cover(This will allow me to see if it's both the middle and lower one, or just the middle one, leaking)
3. Either one it is, I'm going to then REALLY CLEAN the holes out, then coat the bolt a bit with Toyota FIPK-Black, toward the end, but only on the area where it's going to be right up against the block... I'll measure it well to be sure I don't get much at all into the threads of the block).
4. I will also be slathering some on toward the head of the bolt, and behind the bracket and in front of it, where the surface meets the timing cover(This should help, if any oil still gets in at the gasket area, to keep it from making it's way out that hole)
Yes, there's a chance that it's not my only issue and that it might be cracked somewhere. But as a couple people were saying, including Roger, "It can leak past the gasket and work it's way into that bolt housing of the timing cover...." and as Andy said, "Look at it this way, it's 2 hours, max, to do this. You don't have to pull ANY of the stuff that you just did, and if it doesn't work, then you can get into the 6-8 hour job of pulling and replacing the entire cover, etc.... i would at least try it".
Thanks, Rob, Mouse, Jerry, Tim A.(Nice to meet ya!),
Rob, I think that it's REALLY unlikely that the oil pump is flawed in any way. From what I've learned in the last couple hours, ...Oil is slinging all over inside the cover from the chain, especially once it gets really warmed up(when it seems to get leaking worse) and also cuz it's under pressure after a short time. It COULD be the o-ring.... but I can't see it hurting to try this, first.
Whatcha guys think?
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 10-27-2010 at 07:56 PM.
Trending Topics
10-27-2010, 09:44 PM
#9
AC compressor, AC Bracket and all bolts in question are out(THERE ARE 4 ON THE COVER, BTW! lol..... Shoulda seen me, "whyyyy wontttt thisssss, grrrrrr, ......oh....DOH!") hehehehe.
Anyway, long story short;
ONLY bolt that had oil on it was that second one up from the bottom,....the one in the center of the first pic in my last post. Oddly enough.... A BLOB of sealant was on the very end of it...NO WHERE else, none on the threads....just the end. I was thinking, "Could this have stopped it from fully seating?", etc., etc., etc., of course, rattling what is, at this point, THE CAN that is housing the think organ on my shoulders! lol.... NO OIL in ANY of the other holes, POSITIVE!
Sooooooooo, I guess I'll try what Andy said and slap it in with the sealant technique(not on the end, lol)...just where it is perpendicular to the block/timing cover/gasket surface...then, I'll slap it back together, let it set a day, like before, then start it up and see what happens. In the mean time, I'm going to go down to the Japanese Dismantler I love and pull some cover bolts to see WTH if anything is wrong with the 'length' theory. Why not, it'll take me 30 minutes or so, total, to get there and back. Sound logic? lol...
THANKS, guys, so much... I considered the dye thing, etc., but I had a strong feeling it was JUST from that bolt... and there IS an oil galley right on top and to the right of it, where oil can build up and get through, if the bolt isn't either fully torqued down or, maybe, just ANOTHER STUPID MOVE BY MR. MEANY MACHINIST! hahaha.
PLEASE, don't stop with your thoughts, ok? I'ma go get some pics right now, load em up and then hit the sack. HUGE weekend for me, every year. Plus, I have work, all day, along with this CRAP(only say that cuz I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE DOING THIS! lol), which makes my days around 20 hours or so.
BRB w/pics!
Mark
Anyway, long story short;
ONLY bolt that had oil on it was that second one up from the bottom,....the one in the center of the first pic in my last post. Oddly enough.... A BLOB of sealant was on the very end of it...NO WHERE else, none on the threads....just the end. I was thinking, "Could this have stopped it from fully seating?", etc., etc., etc., of course, rattling what is, at this point, THE CAN that is housing the think organ on my shoulders! lol.... NO OIL in ANY of the other holes, POSITIVE!
Sooooooooo, I guess I'll try what Andy said and slap it in with the sealant technique(not on the end, lol)...just where it is perpendicular to the block/timing cover/gasket surface...then, I'll slap it back together, let it set a day, like before, then start it up and see what happens. In the mean time, I'm going to go down to the Japanese Dismantler I love and pull some cover bolts to see WTH if anything is wrong with the 'length' theory. Why not, it'll take me 30 minutes or so, total, to get there and back. Sound logic? lol...
THANKS, guys, so much... I considered the dye thing, etc., but I had a strong feeling it was JUST from that bolt... and there IS an oil galley right on top and to the right of it, where oil can build up and get through, if the bolt isn't either fully torqued down or, maybe, just ANOTHER STUPID MOVE BY MR. MEANY MACHINIST! hahaha.
PLEASE, don't stop with your thoughts, ok? I'ma go get some pics right now, load em up and then hit the sack. HUGE weekend for me, every year. Plus, I have work, all day, along with this CRAP(only say that cuz I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE DOING THIS! lol), which makes my days around 20 hours or so.
BRB w/pics!
Mark
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 10-27-2010 at 09:47 PM.
10-27-2010, 10:28 PM
#10
Here's some pics; 1st pic is of the 4 bolts that had to come out of the timing cover...
This is the SUCKER THAT'S LEAKING! Could it be that HUGE BLOB of RTV that got in the passage, and then when he installed the bolt, on the end of the bolt??? Who knows! hahaha. We'll see when I try to seal it up. Might have to get in there with an exacto and clean some of that away for my idea to be effective.... here is the ONLY hole that was leaking....
Here, below, is a video, a BAD ONE, explaining some of what's going on...
This is the SUCKER THAT'S LEAKING! Could it be that HUGE BLOB of RTV that got in the passage, and then when he installed the bolt, on the end of the bolt??? Who knows! hahaha. We'll see when I try to seal it up. Might have to get in there with an exacto and clean some of that away for my idea to be effective.... here is the ONLY hole that was leaking....
Here, below, is a video, a BAD ONE, explaining some of what's going on...
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 10-28-2010 at 08:06 AM.
10-28-2010, 07:49 AM
#12
Registered User
First off,
Chef, man i feel bad for ya. i see an abundance of threads dealing with your engine problems. you really got screwed by your machinist. but im glad to see that you are making it sure its done correctly. this should help someone out a lot later on down the road.
That being said, mild post jack about to occur.
can someone explain to me this whole RTV on the timing cover bolts thing? I dont understand. No where in the FSM does it say to put anything on any of the threads when installing it (Engine Mechanical- Timing Chain: pages EM-45 to EM-51). Yet, I have seen a couple different threads where people talk about it. why is it needed? why doesnt toyota say to put it on there? is there some mod that you guys did that broke through to an oil gallery in the block?
please school this noob.
thanks
Chef, man i feel bad for ya. i see an abundance of threads dealing with your engine problems. you really got screwed by your machinist. but im glad to see that you are making it sure its done correctly. this should help someone out a lot later on down the road.
That being said, mild post jack about to occur.
can someone explain to me this whole RTV on the timing cover bolts thing? I dont understand. No where in the FSM does it say to put anything on any of the threads when installing it (Engine Mechanical- Timing Chain: pages EM-45 to EM-51). Yet, I have seen a couple different threads where people talk about it. why is it needed? why doesnt toyota say to put it on there? is there some mod that you guys did that broke through to an oil gallery in the block?
please school this noob.
thanks
10-28-2010, 08:04 AM
#13
Hey Bryan.....
Actually, the 'Timing cover Bolts' section WOULD NOT contain what is "the sealant bolt"... The ONLY bolt that gets sealant is the Upper Oil Pump Mounting Bolt that goes through right under the Timing Mark Plate(12-10-8-5-0) of the oil pump. That bolt goes through above the Oil Pump O-ring, but on the end, travels through an oil channel(?).
Actually, the 'Timing cover Bolts' section WOULD NOT contain what is "the sealant bolt"... The ONLY bolt that gets sealant is the Upper Oil Pump Mounting Bolt that goes through right under the Timing Mark Plate(12-10-8-5-0) of the oil pump. That bolt goes through above the Oil Pump O-ring, but on the end, travels through an oil channel(?).
10-28-2010, 08:08 AM
#14
REPOST; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Here's some pics; 1st pic is of the 4 bolts that had to come out of the timing cover...
This is the SUCKER THAT'S LEAKING! Could it be that HUGE BLOB of RTV that got in the passage, and then when he installed the bolt, on the end of the bolt??? Who knows! hahaha. We'll see when I try to seal it up. Might have to get in there with an exacto and clean some of that away for my idea to be effective.... here is the ONLY hole that was leaking....
Here, below, is a video, a BAD ONE, explaining some of what's going on...
Here's some pics; 1st pic is of the 4 bolts that had to come out of the timing cover...
This is the SUCKER THAT'S LEAKING! Could it be that HUGE BLOB of RTV that got in the passage, and then when he installed the bolt, on the end of the bolt??? Who knows! hahaha. We'll see when I try to seal it up. Might have to get in there with an exacto and clean some of that away for my idea to be effective.... here is the ONLY hole that was leaking....
Here, below, is a video, a BAD ONE, explaining some of what's going on...
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 10-28-2010 at 08:11 AM.
10-28-2010, 08:13 AM
#15
Registered User
ahh i see now. in lubrication section (LU-6) you can see where they coat the one bolt. they say to use "three bond 1324" or equivalent.
thanks chef. good luck with the leak
thanks chef. good luck with the leak
10-28-2010, 09:14 AM
#16
Hey Guys,
I got a message back from toyospearo, letting me know that he's going to ask his Boss(a top notch machinist) what would be the best way to tackle this. And, well, ANYONE who 'toyospearo' would ask for advice from.... DANG, I can't wait! hahaha! Actually, I WILL WAIT, because I am DONE screwing around with this. Yes, I got screwed, ....but as I've said, "IT ENDED UP BEING WORTH IT! Otherwise, I'd never have learned so much! lol"(I know.... I don't know much, but I'M TRYING TO LEARNEDEDED MYSELF! LOL).
If the guy says, "OOOoooh, I've tried to seal that up, it's best to remove the cover"... then that's most likely what I'll do, because, let me repeat myself, ''I AM DONE SCREWING AROUND WITH THIS LOVELY MACHINE!".. HONESTLY, if it would save me another month of nonsense, I would tear the whole motor out, right now(minus the head) and drop it off at the machinist and tell him, "GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK, NOW!"... But I just don't have the time, at this point, to do so! CATCH 22! lol
Thanks, guys, and any ideas, still BOUNCING AROUND in yer nuggets.... SLING EM MY WAY, PLEASE? lol.
Mark
I got a message back from toyospearo, letting me know that he's going to ask his Boss(a top notch machinist) what would be the best way to tackle this. And, well, ANYONE who 'toyospearo' would ask for advice from.... DANG, I can't wait! hahaha! Actually, I WILL WAIT, because I am DONE screwing around with this. Yes, I got screwed, ....but as I've said, "IT ENDED UP BEING WORTH IT! Otherwise, I'd never have learned so much! lol"(I know.... I don't know much, but I'M TRYING TO LEARNEDEDED MYSELF! LOL).
If the guy says, "OOOoooh, I've tried to seal that up, it's best to remove the cover"... then that's most likely what I'll do, because, let me repeat myself, ''I AM DONE SCREWING AROUND WITH THIS LOVELY MACHINE!".. HONESTLY, if it would save me another month of nonsense, I would tear the whole motor out, right now(minus the head) and drop it off at the machinist and tell him, "GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK, NOW!"... But I just don't have the time, at this point, to do so! CATCH 22! lol
Thanks, guys, and any ideas, still BOUNCING AROUND in yer nuggets.... SLING EM MY WAY, PLEASE? lol.
Mark
10-28-2010, 11:43 AM
#17
Here's more pics.........
This is the area with the casting blemish/or/crack(?) that Jerry(92toy) mentioned....
Here is another example that looks similar, near the cover/pan mating surface...
This, right below the 4th bolt up from the bottom, appears to be coolant, but didn't appear to be there until I removed all these bolts.........
Honestly???? Well, I honestly don't know, lol. But I'm sure of one thing, I'm REALLY disappointed and a bit discouraged... Now I'm not even sure if I do this that I wont have to pull the cover anyhow. But, I guess it's worth a try, seeing as the whole thing took about an hour to remove and clean up in there, all together.
As my teenage daughter says, ...."WHATEVERRRRRRRRRR!" lol. .....ahhhhhh
Just waiting to hear from Spearo, hopefully I'll find out either way what 'might be the best route' to take.
Thanks, guys,
Mark
This is the area with the casting blemish/or/crack(?) that Jerry(92toy) mentioned....
Here is another example that looks similar, near the cover/pan mating surface...
This, right below the 4th bolt up from the bottom, appears to be coolant, but didn't appear to be there until I removed all these bolts.........
Honestly???? Well, I honestly don't know, lol. But I'm sure of one thing, I'm REALLY disappointed and a bit discouraged... Now I'm not even sure if I do this that I wont have to pull the cover anyhow. But, I guess it's worth a try, seeing as the whole thing took about an hour to remove and clean up in there, all together.
As my teenage daughter says, ...."WHATEVERRRRRRRRRR!" lol. .....ahhhhhh
Just waiting to hear from Spearo, hopefully I'll find out either way what 'might be the best route' to take.
Thanks, guys,
Mark
10-28-2010, 01:59 PM
#19
Registered User
